Episode 13: (22 BBY) Attack of the Clones

Oh, poor Liam.

Yes, poor Liam.

He tries so hard.

It's so terrible.

Yeah, we need to make a new series.

It's like the lower deck of Star Wars.

Yeah, Liam the blind guy.

Ten years after The Phantom Menace, Anakin has all grown up.

And he's kind of a jerk.

An arrogant, immature, genocidal, sand-hating jerk.

Just what a woman wants.

Today, we review Star Wars Episode II, Attack of the Clones on this edition of the 11 Parsecs Podcast.

Hello and welcome to Podcast number 13 of the 11 Parsecs Podcast.

I'm your host, Eric.

I'm here with my other co-host, Jon.

Hello.

And our movie and audiobook specialist podcast host, William.

Howdy.

And today we are reviewing Attack of the Clones, Episode II.

It's a movie podcast.

For those that don't know much about this podcast and maybe tuning in for the first time,

our goal is to go through a list of chronological, BBY order,

every single bit of Star Wars New Canon, comics, books, movies, audio dramas, video games, cartoons,

and pretty much anything we can consume in any of those forms.

This is podcast number 13, and this is our second movie.

These movie podcasts are a very big deal for us because we all kind of watched all of the movies,

but we didn't necessarily read all the books, didn't necessarily read all the comics,

didn't necessarily do all the audio dramas and that type of stuff.

So these are kind of like little milestone points in our whole entire project's journey.

So also, it should be noted that this podcast is completely chock full of spoilers.

We do not hold back on anything that we review, whether it came out five years ago or whether it came out in 2002.

So if for some reason you have been holding back on watching Attack of the Clones for almost 20 years

and don't want to know anything about it, this is the wrong podcast to listen to.

Okay, so let's do what we do every podcast, guys.

Let's pop the tops and then we can talk about what we're drinking.

Pop the tops.

Pop the top.

Countdown.

Okay, give me one second. Let me grab my...

Three, two, one.

Nice.

I didn't actually bring a glass today, so I'm drinking straight out of the can.

Like a kid.

Seriously.

All right, William, I'm going to guess I know what you're drinking tonight.

Nope, you don't. It's a Mocha Russian.

A Mocha Russian?

It's really mixing it up this time.

Okay, we got it.

We got it, we got it, we got it.

What is the difference between a Mocha Russian and a White Russian?

Well, normally it would be one shot of Kahlúa, one shot of vodka,

and I think it's a half a cup of milk, or maybe it's a whole cup of milk.

Instead, my wife made this for me, and she, for some reason, used a shot of milk as well.

So it's a very, very dark White Russian.

Is it again the Big Gulp version?

No, this one's only about eight ounces.

Okay, good.

Very concentrated.

Very concentrated, yes.

Very powerful, eight ounces.

Yeah, I hope you have that in a sippy cup.

It's a movie podcast. I mean, come on.

I actually thought about grabbing two different beers just to have as a secondary beer.

I got a backup. You got to have a backup.

Yeah, I'll probably go grab a backup in a minute.

John, what are you drinking?

I am drinking, this is Attack of the Clones. This is a movie.

So this is a special, special podcast.

I'm drinking a very special beer, one of my favorite beers of all time.

Unless you have a different opinion, you will agree that it is an amazing triple IPA from Cherry Street.

One Giant Leap.

Love that beer.

I'm actually in fear of this beer because it's like 10%.

And actually, you are hyper-local.

That beer was brewed less than three miles from your house?

The guy just handed it to me right through my door.

Yeah, seriously.

I mean, yeah, Cherry Street Brewing, great local brewery for us up in North Atlanta, A+.

I'm also actually drinking an Atlanta brew. It's Monday Night Brewing, though.

And this is a little off for me because I'm not drinking an IPA.

Usually I drink IPAs on these things.

I'm drinking a Dr. Robot. Have you had that?

No. What is that?

Key Lime Sour.

What was the slow death there?

Look, I can't get into sours.

I like pretty much all beer, focus on IPA and triples.

But I can't get into sours. I try.

This is beer number one for the movie podcast, and it's a sipping beer.

It's going to be more of like a palate cleanser.

Yes, it's a very good cleanser.

So first off, I'm going to start out with a little bit different of a question than I normally start out with on these podcasts.

What was your initial impression when you saw Attack of the Clones back in 2002?

First, hold on. Let me give a little background of the actual Attack of the Clones.

When Cinnamon Reiders first cameac.

When Firma Queensflame did his first cast, we were both from London.

Then coming with my older brother was Flynn Burns's family from Glebha.

Cthen was on the screen as a mark of the solidarity that Team White was showing the world.

He was Washington's voice for a lot of the time.

May 16, 2002 was written by George Lucas and Jonathan Hales, who the only other really bigger or larger movie that I could find that he wrote was Scorpion King, but he did write a bunch of the Young and the End Jones Chronicles, which were very good.

This is 10 years after Phantom Menace, and this is the only Star Wars movie that got outgrossed the year that it came out. It ended up being third domestically, which is pretty interesting when you think about it.

I don't know. I didn't look that up.

Oh my God, you can't throw that out there.

I can throw that out there. I can totally throw that out there. But yes, it got outgrossed in the US, and I think I read that it was the only Star Wars movie to have ever done that. Of the main nine Skywalker saga movies.

I think we need to also mention that this was also directed by George Lucas.

Yes, it was. Good call on that. I always ask you guys, you guys know this at this point, what is your numerical rating 1 through 100 on this movie? But I want to know what it was back in 2002 when you first saw it, and then what you thought of it this week after you watched it.

I remember thinking that this was pretty decent at the time. I'm a little surprised to think back like that, but I do think that I enjoyed it more or less. More than Episode one.

So if you were just to think back to 2002, what do you think your 2002 self would have gave this movie, and then what would you give it today?

Probably somewhere in the 80s. I don't know if it's high 80s or low 80s. It's really fuzzy.

Okay. It's almost 20 years ago. I get it.

At the time. At the time. Now, I soured on the prequels pretty quickly.

William, what are you thinking? Your 2002 self and then your 2020 self.

Actually, I would say that my answer is going to be the same for both. The only thing that has changed is my understanding of it. Doesn't mean I like it better.

Interesting.

So, to me, this is the tale of two stories, and I have two very, very different answers. But if I had to give it a little more average, I guess that would come out to about 67. Not nearly as good as Phantom Menace, in my opinion.

Yeah, and actually, now that you say that, I think that's where I'm at. I think that I probably initially would have gave it... I wasn't a huge fan whenever it came out of this movie, but I'd say I'd probably still rate it about a 78.

Today, I'm probably still kicking it about the same. Yeah, I'd say 78, 79 is probably where I would say.

Did both of you prefer Phantom Menace to this?

I did.

I'm going to detail.

It's a toss-up.

No, go into detail, please.

Like I said, to me, it's two different movies.

They are two different movies. I totally agree with that.

This movie alone is two different movies. And the reason I wanted to stress that this was directed by George Lucas, because this was not apparent to me when I first watched the movie.

And the very first half of the movie, I could have done without completely.

But now, I understand. I think George Lucas was trying to basically pull off Romeo and Juliet.

And I didn't realize how over the top... I mean, I knew it was over the top, but I didn't realize it was intentional.

He's basically trying to make Romeo and Juliet. And the thing about the way Anakin is talking about, you know, how pain for your love is killing me.

And you look back at Shakespearean things like that, and that's how they were, just sickening.

Shakespeare had strong opinions on sand.

Excellent. I would not know about that.

So I think this was George Lucas trying something that he shouldn't have been doing.

Because we both know that both actors are actually capable of far better than what they performed.

I'll totally agree with you on that. I think both Hayden Christensen and Adlai Portman are very, very good actors and actresses.

So I think this falls on the director, and I think that George Lucas was trying... I mean, the dialogue definitely reflects...

You go back and watch a modern Romeo and Juliet or something like that, and they're just, you know, just sickening.

So the DiCaprio Romeo and Juliet, the one that I'm thinking of, the last that I saw, was the actual Shakespearean...

Right. Well, that's why I should say, yeah, just completely over the top, love being explained in a way that normal people would run away from.

And as my wife pointed out to me, I didn't even think about this, she said, well, think about Romeo and Juliet.

They're both raised in complete isolation.

They had, you know, everything that they could possibly have.

They had no idea how the real world worked.

The love was so strong.

It made me gag 20 years ago and it made me gag now.

The only difference is now I understand what the intent was.

It was unfortunately never made clear.

Do you really think that it's just he was trying to portray how clunky the characters are?

Or is Lucas just terrible at writing dialogue?

He's terrible at writing, in my opinion, romantic dialogue.

Let's be honest here. There are some parts of the movie that we'll get into.

The dialogue that I most have a problem with throughout this whole movie is most definitely Anakin and her.

It's 99% Anakin.

It just doesn't work.

It is part delivery.

I think that was a directing thing.

I think that was Hayden Christensen being told to deliver it like this.

He's kind of awkward with it and it just didn't work out.

I think we can totally dispense with that. They're good actors.

It's not their fault they were directed into this debacle that we see on screen.

It's not their fault. We can all move on from that.

The reason I go back to Romeo and Juliet is that any normal person hearing the crap that he said, like a girl, should be running away in fear.

But they wouldn't. As my wife was pointing out to me, she said, you need to be thinking of a very young, immature girl.

An immature young girl would eat this up.

You and I were all sickened by this.

But Padme at this point, though, has served out her entire term as queen.

She's been through tons of stuff as a Senator.

How old is she at this point?

That's the thing.

27?

Just like the camp girls.

How old is she?

25?

Yeah, younger 20s.

And well-traveled, well-versed.

Totally agree.

Not a preteen.

Wait, John, we've got to talk about something, though.

We have read Queen's Shadow and we've read the other books that are leading up until this point.

That necessarily wasn't available back then whenever the character was being developed.

You're going to make my brain hurt.

What?

Multiple levels and paths of criticism.

She's sheltered.

I mean, in my understanding, I guess I haven't read the book you're talking about, but from my perspective,

you'd have to think she's very sheltered.

Everything's been handled for her, and she's never had, with the exception of the one romantic involvement,

which was very short-lived that she mentions in the movie, she's completely sheltered.

This is all new to her.

She has no idea how to handle it.

They've gone back and fleshed her out, though, since this movie came out.

I think that's probably one of the biggest criticisms was what we're saying here is that it seems so –

I mean, one scene sticks out to me more than anything is the part where he's gone and killed everyone after his mother's died.

And he comes back.

He's like, you know, I've killed them all.

I've killed the women.

I've killed the children.

And she's in that weird muumuu thing, and she's just like, oh, it's okay.

I'm like, girl, you've got to run.

What are you doing?

That was a bit of a –

Yeah, and that's what I thought as well.

Wait, wait, that's a bit of a what?

Red flag.

Red flag?

Yeah, it totally was.

I was kind of like that's the point at which I'm just like, literally, y'all just met again or re-met, you know, like a week ago.

And you're like, oh, it's okay.

I guess she's on some other planet with him, and, you know, she's got to get off the planet and get back home too if she's trying to get out of it.

But I'm just like, what on earth is this scene?

Yeah, this is why I'm glad I talked to my wife about this because the warning signs to me were well before that scene.

It was the every day I'm in more pain because of my love for you kind of thing.

The warning signs were in the first five seconds of when they met.

That's what I'm saying.

You had this pervy stare.

When they re-met.

Yeah.

And she even said, you know, stop staring at me that way.

It makes me uncomfortable, yeah.

It makes me uncomfortable.

But as my wife pointed out to me, she's like, you do not know how immature girls think.

She said that's not what they think.

But Padme's been in this, I mean, she knows people are going to be hitting on her.

I mean, you know, I don't know.

I think that there's The Force that is trying to guide these two together, but he lays it on so thick.

I mean, it's like, it's pretty ridiculous.

And Obi-Wan just kind of stands by.

I mean, you have that awkward fight when they're sitting on the couch at the very beginning of the movie.

Like I said, you could.

Learn your place.

Oh, yeah.

Which is actually a pretty well acted scene in my opinion.

I think that she is though every bit deserving of him.

I mean the absolute castration phrase she says to him about,

oh he's not a Jedi Knight, he's just a Padawan.

Yeah, that's pretty good word.

I mean it just absolutely, you know.

Excuse me milady.

Yes, I mean it's just, she's every bit as a.

That's what I'm saying, she knows what she's doing.

That's why it's not like a, that's why like I said,

that whole scene where he talks about killing everyone.

You're just kind of like, man there's some stuff going on there.

Do you really want to get in that?

Turn tail and run, go, go now.

Get out of here.

So, wait, wait, wait, let's finish since we're on that scene.

Why did that scene happen?

Which one?

When he says they're animals and I slaughtered them like animals.

I'm assuming the exposition so that he can explain what his reasoning was

before slaughtering.

Because previous to that you had the scene where he's like,

wait, what's wrong about that?

Like whenever he's talking about.

The dictator, we need a dictator.

Yeah, that's what it was, well if it works.

That's what it was.

Well if it works.

And that's that there and she kind of looks at him like.

That's a little hint, yeah, that's a little draw.

Yeah, she's kind of like, oh, that's pretty funny.

You know, like.

And then he's like, yeah, it was funny, wasn't it?

Like, you know, and then they just kind of, you know,

it keeps going and then you get to that scene where that's like the second

red flag.

Well, that scene exists to show.

Anakin's nature.

I mean, that's it's not a deep question.

It's just a show that he has this rage inside of him and threats to his

family will bring it out wholesale.

Oh, yeah.

Unfiltered.

Well, and I think combination of what we talked about last podcast I was on

the Dooku episode.

The Jedi not necessarily doing the best job of raising their young Jedi.

And basically having to suppress emotions.

I think that he felt like he could probably finally express his emotions.

And I'm excluding the acting.

I'm talking about the character himself.

Ideally, that he felt like he could express that.

And that's something that she shared with him that she did not agree with

the Jedi that basically I felt like the whole suppression of emotions and

something that was something she was not in favor of either.

Okay.

Well, you know what?

You bring up an interesting point.

Do they not have medical technology in the Star Wars universe?

Can they not just feed Xanax to all the Jedi or whatever kind of pill would

tamp you down, even you out, you know, so you don't have these wild mood

swings.

Basically defeat the Sith through the power of medicine.

Yeah, but I think Xanax, pineapple juice, and midichlorians have this kind of

weird combination thing going where you can't take them all at the same time.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, interactions.

You gotta hate that.

Yeah, I mean, if you go on like, you know, like what is it, MD,

MedMD or whatever it is on the web, and if you look it up, I mean, you know.

If I look at midichlorians on WebMD, okay.

Yeah, there's not many drugs you can take.

Trust me.

Think about what's going to happen to anybody who's raised that any time

they express emotions gets chastised, you're going to create a monster.

And Yoda says this about all the, basically about all the recent Jedi's all

have issues with power and thinking that they're all that, and that's a

actually coping mechanism, if you know much about psychology, which

unfortunately I've taken way too much psychology, taken, read too many

psychology books, probably self-help books.

But anyway, that brings on.

You're much better now.

Yeah, I'm so much better.

But yeah, that's a coping mechanism, thinking that you're superior, but

it's, again, I think it's a situation that the Jedi have created.

I hate the Jedi.

Have I mentioned that?

Yeah, no, I was going to say, this ties right back in with your hatred of

the Jedi.

You think they're all bad, Sith are all good.

I don't like the, no, I don't think the Sith are all good.

I definitely do not like the Sith either, but the.

I'm an independent voter, Jon.

That's right.

I'm independent.

You have to choose a side.

Pick one.

I just think that suppressing your emotions is a horrible, bad idea.

You shut up.

All right, enough of Star Wars psychology, let's get into the.

I would like to mention something, since we're on deep topics.

I would like to point out that what happens right at the beginning of the

movie, not the title scrawl, what's the first thing to happen in the movie?

Is it the Corday explosion?

The assassination attempt, right?

Yeah.

I would like to propose.

That was Corday, right?

Not Dorme or.

Yeah, I think it was Corday.

Jorde.

It was Corday.

I think it was Corday.

Go ahead.

I would like to point out, propose, if you will, that that action

At the beginning of the movie drives the whole movie.

How about that?

That's that's actually I agree with that.

I think that this movie actually, if I'm going to give anything

other than that chariot scene, I think this movie is really, really good pacing.

Like it is continuously moving and continue.

It's got a lot to cover and it knows it's got a lot to cover.

And they did a good job with that.

Well, it's kind of being

ridiculous, but because obviously it drives the whole movie.

But but my question is, who who did the assassination attempt?

Who who's who's behind that again?

The trade.

Wait, who knows the muscle?

Well, they said the Trade Federation.

Well, not the direct guy, not the direct assassin.

The Trade Federation was.

Trade.

For us.

Why? Why? Why did they do this?

He wanted the Trade Federation to be happy and join his little thing.

Yeah. Remember when they're like sitting in the big circular room with bugs and

it's just simple revenge.

Well, yeah, remember, they did.

They're just bloodthirsty.

They just want to see your dad.

I totally agree with that.

Yeah. They said they remember they didn't want to sign until she was dead.

That was their that was that was their requirement.

So Tyrannus hired Jango, who hired said Russell, who screwed it up.

Remember, she goes to Jango and she's like, they used a decoy.

OK, I think I was a little confused on that.

I thought that Palpatine was behind that

in the very end, you know, all the way up in the end of the chain.

Yeah, he's where the buck stops, because basically he's saying,

Tyrannus, you need to go get all these people on board for the for the robot army.

I really misunderstood all that.

I thought that he was trying to take her out because she was in the way

of his bones. No. OK.

Now, that was that was all trade.

New gunray in the Trade Federation.

They really wanted to see her dead.

And think about it for him also being from Nauvoo.

If it had happened, it would just play sympathy for him.

So it was a win win for him.

I don't think he cared.

Yeah, I don't know if he actually I don't think in my opinion,

I mean, it doesn't say in the movie or anything, but he doesn't cast down

the order to do it.

But he does tell Tyrannus, make sure you make everybody happy

so that we have two sides of this war to fight. Yep.

And that was and that was, you know, in the mandate, I guess you could call it.

So in the end, he is responsible for it.

But Tyrannus or Doku is the one who actually

tells Django to go do whatever he needs to do to get her dead.

Get her dead. Get her dead, man.

No, it's to make sure to make sure she does not make the next Senate meeting.

So going on, what you're saying about pacing, this is why I say

is to tell it to two movies for me,

because if you take out all the love and action,

the awkward poetry reading statements and stuff,

it is a actually very good, fast paced action movie.

Where where would you pick it up?

I would. OK, so you had the opening scene and then basically anything

that involved them,

Padme and Anakin romantic wise, especially

not even the scenes with either standing together or whatever, that's fine.

But the lines being delivered by Anakin cut it all out.

If you get rid of all that, I my my rating of this movie

goes up to maybe even 90.

I would definitely like it much better.

Better. I would definitely like it better than Phantom Menace.

I mean, because the dialogue after the movie, after that part was fine.

I thought was fantastic.

I mean, I love the little one liners.

Yeah, there's there's actually really good one letters, like whatever.

They're both tied up.

And he's like, I came to rescue you.

And Obi-Wan's like, well, you're doing a good job.

I love that line. I think it's a great line.

Yeah. And, you know, there's all you know, when

I can't remember what what when she basically got herself out

and she starts climbing up and he says, and again says,

what about what about her?

And he said that she's on top of it.

Yeah, she's on top of it.

And, you know, and of course, he threw on beside myself, that kind of stuff.

Well, we once got some great lines in this movie.

He really does like it, like his his writing was really good.

And I think that that he just knew how to play him.

I mean, honestly, I think that I think it was it was a built in character.

It was very kind of sarcastic.

And I liked it.

And like I said, I still think that the acting in that couch scene

where they're fighting is actually pretty darn good acting,

like because everybody in the crowd's like, oh, my gosh, what's going on?

I don't know. You know, what are these two fighting about?

Yeah, it was, you know, there's good.

So I've got three three scenes that I think I really enjoyed

or I have previously enjoyed, and I really enjoy this viewing

or this two views.

Number one, the one with the pair, clearly the one with a pair.

So basically, when my family gets together at Christmas,

you know, people put on like a fireplace.

I think it's on their TV.

So basically, I just have a video of the pair floating back and forth,

back and forth on.

And then that's and we watch this long.

I mean, that's that's like that's what we do.

And so. So. All right.

So the three the three things that I have in my notes that I really

forgot how much I enjoyed.

Number one, you know, Lucas is such a big car guy.

The car chasing. I liked it a little bit more.

I think this.

and I could see the nostalgia in like the old cars and the chase scene and that kind of thing.

It's got a real, yeah, American Graffiti thing. Yeah, it was a very, yeah, definitely American Graffiti.

And I knew that back then. I just didn't, I don't think I appreciate it like I do now. I thought it was pretty good.

I thought it was pretty good. Second thing, um,

the major battle with all the Jedi at the end. I, I, I, I forgot how much I loved that scene.

Um, just seeing that many Jedi out there

fighting at one time. Nope. You didn't like it? Nope.

That is the classic case of we have to up the ante. Let's have, you know,

well, let's see, we've had like maybe five lightsabers. Let's have 500.

Yeah. And have them flipping on all over the stadium. No, no, no.

I got one more. I got one more. And this is, this is absolutely my favorite thing about this movie.

Is the sound of the seismic charges. I love that sound.

Oh my gosh. That is like the best sound effect ever. I don't understand how they didn't

walk away. You know, you know, that sound doesn't travel in space.

I was waiting for it. Pew, pew. But somehow they

actually make it like deafening quiet. Oh, it's so good.

It's such a good, that is phenomenal sound design.

Whoever, whoever designed that sound and that combined with,

um, his ship firing like 5 million shots a second.

It gives you that sense of danger.

Yeah. That scene, that seems so well, I shouldn't say that. I think that

scene was good because Boba Fett is the most annoying

backseat driver I've ever heard in my life.

Like his, like, get him dad. Dad, try spinning. That's a good trick.

It's just like, oh man. It's just like, oh, and that's, that's the only problem I have with that

scene. But overall, that seems a pretty good fight scene. Those are my three favorite scenes of this movie.

It is. I mean, the more we see

of Django, um, would he really have been fooled by the old throw

their parts, spare parts out and hide? Well, you got to harken back.

I mean, you got to, yeah. No, I get, okay. This actually leads

into fan service, but it's fan service. It's fan service. Why? Which is even neat.

It's fan service to the Millennium Falcon. Hiding on the Star Destroyer.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say there's so many parallels

with, with Empire that I'm sure everybody has lists of.

Think about this. You just, you just, I didn't even get this until you just mentioned that.

That's why Bubba Fett didn't fall for it when the Millennium Falcon did it.

Because he did in the, in the regular movies. He knew that he was going to be sitting there on the trash.

It was a great, it was a great show. I'm having a little chill. I'm having a little chill right now.

I am too. That was good. I did not realize that until you mentioned it. Yes.

Now we know why Bubba Fett didn't fall for it. Right. Because he knew. Yeah.

It's a great throwback. I thought that was a great throwback. I never got that. What an awesome film.

What a good job, John. All right. I'm going to change my score to 105.

That scene alone made it all, I never put that together.

I'll let you think about it. Another Empire

parallel. But no, that's fantastic.

Okay. Wow. Okay. So please, Eric,

what were the three scenes again? The asteroid thing? Yes. The car chase scene, which is

pretty good. Yes. Okay. Which you guys may or may not, there's a little

bit of stuff, like, I feel like I'm like, that's pretty good. I had to choose the right car. And there's some bad delivery there.

But it's still a good. I think it's a good score. The one part of that

sequence that I like is where Obi-Wan is chasing them

and Anakin loses his lightsaber and Obi-Wan just like

snatches it out of the air and sets it down. But he just puts it in the seat. It's so weird to me

that he just drops it in the seat. He's holding it with The Force there. It's a force belt.

Okay. It's a force seat belt. All right. I realized early on,

if you start criticizing physics in Star Wars, you've gone. I know. I know. See, I like

that moment because it shows that they're just rocking it out. They're doing their business.

The jumping out and free falling down.

I hate it when he does that. I don't like that because it's like, these people are immortal.

They can't die doing crap like that. Well, they can.

No, apparently they can't die because they just leap out of

a thousand foot drop and they're like, I'll find a ship. I enjoy Anakin's

grin too whenever he's about to hit that big fat ship that's growing right under him.

And he pulls up right at the last minute. Yeah. I love that. He's got

a legit grin on his face. And I'm like, that's pretty good. That's pretty good. That's acting.

It is. It's very good. Actors. So let's get back to the

big fight Jedi scene. The N-Sync

scene, if I can. What was...

I don't know if you were on the podcast and we discussed it. The N-Sync was actually in that scene but got cut.

Did you know that? I did not. Not N-Sync. Like the one guy.

No, no, no, no. The whole... They were all in there? They were all in

originally in that scene as Jedi.

But they got cut except there's one that may have made it I guess

or they didn't spot him or something. I don't know. Anyways. I just always think of that.

Whenever I see that scene I think of N-Sync which is just a weird thing. That's why I'm here.

Oh, totally. That's why I was third in domestic box office.

Um, they had cut him out. It would be funny if it was like

an NSYNC film was that was like number one, like some kind of

just weird concert footage or something that they made so

much money off of. Uh, so, John, what, what was your problem

with that scene? I, I get up in the ante part of it. That's

diminishing. It's dilution. It is dilution of the special

thing, right? I'm sure someone has counted the number of times

that we see a lightsaber in the original trilogy. Okay. It's

like a handful of times. Sure. It's a special thing. Now, it's

it means nothing. It's a total special thing because there's

only Luke, Yoda, and Darth. I mean, there's not many other

Jedi. Yeah. Let me, let me counter this, John. That would,

how do you, how do you bring about the necessity for the

clones without it? I, I, for me, it is an example of Star Wars

being a nice, tight little film or nice, tight little trilogy

and that's all it really can be. To have the feet, to have

that feeling that it gives you or gave you originally where

the Jedi were special but they're gone now and you know,

and here's a lightsaber and a special and there's a special

duel and it's a big deal. It has to be this tight little

story and once you start to expand it in into the necessary

universe that it must have existed in, it, it's no longer

as, as treasured. So, you're just saying the lightsaber

itself, not Jedi in particular because we've already been

in front of a ton of Jedi. No, it appeals to the Jedi. It

applies to the Jedi and the lightsaber, the whole thing,

right? Imagine if you had a thousand Darth Vader's running

around. But you didn't. That's why, I think that's why this

scene matters because look how many died. Like Jenga took out

the one guy in three shots. Boom, boom, boom. Oh, actually

I have a problem with that too. Like, okay, how many Jedi are

there? If they're being like killed off left and right as

they seem to be in the arena, doesn't it take, it's like a

fighter pilot. It takes decades to, to build a Jedi. You don't

just clone him. That's why Yoda's, that's why Yoda's in the

way. He's like, he knows. He's like, this is not gonna go well.

They're gonna lose all, yeah, they're gonna lose them all. And

I would think you would actually, you would recognize

how precious a Jedi, especially a Jedi Master is. You're saying

they would be deployed like nuclear weapons. You're, okay,

so you're saying you would never see that large of a

contingency in one place. No, no, no. Speaking of nuclear

weapons, hey, there's one. Boom, all the Jedi are dead.

Well, that's, I think that plays to... Arrogance. Well, arrogance.

Right. They, they, exactly that. And they, that, they thought

they were unstoppable. Like, you know, you know, two Jedi

could probably do this, but we'll take 30. And... So wait,

wait, wait, wait, wait, let's wait, let's go back. Doku is

grabbing a massive army and... Yes. And adding all on this

one place. And we have just seen Obi-Wan message back to

them saying, not only is there a clone army we didn't know

about, but there is also Doku amassing this massive trade

Federation army that we don't know about. I mean, this is,

these are pretty big events. Wait, why were they in the

arena? Why did all the Jedi show up in the arena? To rescue

three people. Yeah. No, no, no. He said, he said there's an

army being built here. No, not that. They actually, Yoda

says it, this is a chance to stop, stop the war right now.

Meaning that... He's putting all his eggs in one basket just

because they don't want to have this big war and they know it's coming.

Yes, that is exactly what they're trying to do. I think

that them being there is just a happenstance. I mean, obviously

they would love to save them, but this is their chance to

stop it all for once. They think, they think Doku is everything.

Which makes sense, which makes sense because that's the whole

reason that the clones are there to destroy all the ships as

they start launching. Right. It definitely gets back to the

arrogance because to put all of your super weapons into a

killing bowl is pretty damn stupid. We don't know that it's

all the super weapons. We don't know what percentage of them.

I mean, there's a huge Jedi... How many Jedi are there? I don't

know, but you saw them. How many Jedi? That's a good question.

How many Jedi do you think there are in the Star Wars universe?

I'm a serious question. Is it a thousand, ten thousand? At this

point in time, at this exact point in time. At that moment, yes, at that moment.

I'd say a thousand. I would say a thousand. Hmm. Spread across the

galaxy. Yeah, because there's people out doing stuff. There's people

out... We talked about all the different casts of the Jedi from

Doku Lost or Doku Jedi Lost. I mean, you have different ones

that are all out in the outer systems. This is where I think

that there's a disconnect. And again, I think Star Wars Works

is a nice title story. If you think about the scale of a galaxy,

there would have to be stupid amounts of Jedi out there or

they're just inconsequential. Or they can't find them. I mean,

you got to remember, they've got to get them at the beginning.

And if they don't get them at the beginning, then yeah, you're on

your own. You're going to end up with one Jedi per like 500

worlds. No, not even that. Five thousand worlds. Sure. One Jedi

for five... What's one Jedi going to do with five thousand worlds?

If you use the Drake equation, we can get two. Exactly. This is

Drake equation talking. But this goes back, I mean, it kind of

counters what you were saying before that you felt like this

was making them not unique, but you're actually proving that

they actually are unique. Well, no, I think that... Don't you

turn my argument on me. You take your straw man back. I think

it's more like...

There may be tons of Force sensitive people out there that could be Jedi out there.

Like the kid with the broom.

Yeah, like the kid with the broom.

But you can't get to them.

You don't know where to find them, you don't know where to get to them.

You only have like, you know, let's say we have a thousand people and 15% are Seekers

that we talked about from Doki Jedi Lost.

That's, you know, a thousand, five hundred people out scouring the galaxy.

That's not a lot if you think about the whole galaxy.

But see, it just doesn't work because you could say that they're focused around Korskant

but that doesn't matter because how many planets are represented in the Senate?

Well, they said what, over a thousand Separatists.

Just a thousand Separatists.

Or is it 10,000?

Did they say a thousand or 10,000?

It was somewhere in the thousands.

I don't remember which one.

But I'd say it's definitely over 1,000.

Yeah, it was a lot.

A thousand planets that joined the Separatist movement.

You know, that's where he's all worried.

So what are we talking about?

10,000 planets maybe total?

Yeah, I would say at least 10,000, yeah.

Yeah, I think for them to actually be a threat, and I'm just coming up with a number,

I'd say total planets, 10,000 in both systems.

Okay, so is the Galactic Republic, is it really just a tiny little quadrant of the galaxy?

Is that really what's going on there?

Because they have the outer realm and they never, well, I don't know.

Here's what I think the galaxy is, but we're talking millions of worlds here.

Sure, but number one, they've got to be inhabited, they've got to be intellectual,

they've got to be able to get to the place.

Yeah, no, that's a great question.

But that being said, think about the Senate room.

I mean, there's tons of seats in there.

Not that many.

Not that many.

Oh, there was tons, John.

I counted them the other day.

There was like six.

Six.

There's lots of those little flying pod things.

They did a good job of trying to portray there are so many systems.

They did a great job with that.

It is practically impossible to do, given the numbers that are in play,

but they do a great job with that.

I'm just saying that when you scale it up to the size of a galaxy,

none of it makes any sense.

The Jedi are either numerous beyond count or inconsequential.

Well, I think it's inconsequential.

Well, no, I still think you need one Jedi to train other Jedi.

So let's take Dooku.

He had, what, four Padawans?

So he's able to spread his seed for other people.

I mean, it's like the training, you know what I mean?

The training and stuff like that.

So it's like –

Who are his four Padawans?

I know Rael, good old Rael.

Rael Averroes.

Averroes and Faith Bagulra.

Qui-Gon.

Qui-Gon.

What was the guy from Dooku Jedi Lost that was always talking to Ventress?

Yeah.

Kai.

Kai.

Kai, yeah.

K-A-I.

And then – what's her name?

Oh, my gosh.

Ventress.

Well, yeah, I guess she –

Eartha Kitt.

Yeah, Eartha Kitt.

She doesn't really count as a Jedi.

Well, she was a Jedi.

Yeah, I don't know.

That's debatable.

But, yeah, I agree.

I love that character, by the way.

I just can't wait to forget her name.

Yeah, it is really funny.

You really like that character, and you have no idea what her name is.

Well, I know Ventress.

I always try to remember her first name, and I can never remember it.

Asajj.

Asajj.

It's hard for me to even say that word.

Asajj.

I mean, I've always called her Ventress.

And you'll find out soon that she – I mean, she's an – it's not a spoiler.

Yeah, let's not get further on.

Jon's going to enjoy that character.

We're just going to let him encounter it.

Exactly.

Yeah, okay.

So let's go back to – let's say – we said a thousand Jedi Training in the temple.

No, that's training.

That doesn't mean they're ready to go and ready to fight in a battle.

How many were in that arena?

Fifty?

That was my next question.

About fifty.

A hundred?

Maybe a hundred?

I thought it was about fifty.

Somewhere between fifty and a hundred is where I'm at.

Yeah, that's not really that many of them.

I mean, that is a good portion of them, and I agree with you that that would be Yoda-like.

That's a significant percentage of your fighting population.

And it is your badasses.

I mean, it is your Mace Windu's.

It is your Kit Fisto and all the other guys.

Well, they all lived.

But I'm just saying, though, that it is a sizable – I agree with Jon that it is a sizable portion.

But I don't think it's really like a huge –

No.

And it's also, too – it also serves as an opening, Jon, and we'll get into it more when we start watching Clone Wars.

It serves as an opening into getting people ready to lead the clones.

So, like, it shows you, like, really specific Jedi that are going to have, like, you know, different parts coming up in the future.

I see.

You can talk about it.

I can't.

But anyway.

I totally – I totally – I just totally reprimanded you, like, five minutes ago.

Boom.

Mic drop right there.

Yeah, seriously.

And now I'm like, well, I mean, you've got Kit Fisto and you've got blah, blah, blah.

So, yeah, I should – I totally agree with that.

Well, here's what I would say, though.

It's an introduction to those characters.

Yeah, stop with your spoilers.

Okay, here's what I would say.

To make you feel – I wasn't kidding before – to make you feel how I feel about it.

Imagine if you will that you have like Darth Vader enter whatever room and then a hundred more Darth

Vader's enter behind him. There's only one Darth Vader that's the whole point.

Work with me here people. No no no you don't understand he is unbelievably powerful. Very

few Jedi are that powerful. I mean okay no actually no one is that powerful. Who you want to say you

want me to say Yoda? There's 100 Yodas. Yoda again you're choosing let's choose let's say

Kit Fista. Yes there you go. I don't know who that is. He's the guy with the green

tentacle things that hang down. Oh that guy. The one that smiles at three two three. Exactly

that's exactly the scene I was saying. What are my favorite Jedi? Yes that's not the same that's

not the okay one of your favorite Jedi fine I means nothing to me one of your favorite Jedi

now there's a thousand of them. Yeah and he's still pretty badass. He's not special anymore

uh you know you got a hundred Mace Windu's. He's well they say about Mace Windu. Go ahead.

Second most powerful Jedi. Mace Windu? Yes he's the second most powerful Jedi.

The uh um based on was it even Dooku talked about it then the I'm trying to remember. Yeah

Dooku says my old friend. I thought that we've established Qui-Gon was the only one who could

have defeated the Emperor. Yeah well no I'm talking about Patton. Sorry. No no. I'm talking

about like being able to sword fight and have used The Force he was supposed to be pretty badass.

I mean yeah. He's in this film he's ranked number two. I mean yeah I mean him and Yoda are sitting

on their little round couches and yeah meditating together so I mean I agree that he's powerful but

we don't have a we don't have any type of barometer for and also keep in mind that most

of those Jedi you have to assume came from the academy so that means like every other one was

probably a Padawan um so that's probably the ones you got. That's true that's true yeah a lot of the

guys that got killed were probably the the Padawans. Yep. Which man do you bring your Padawan to this

battle? I don't know that you do. Apparently they did I'm guessing. We we actually Eric we covered

that before with the comic where uh Obi-Wan didn't want to take Anakin out because it's too dangerous.

Yeah yeah. And was it Yoda that said no you got to do you got to start bringing him out yeah you

got to start you got to start that's why they were there yeah and it didn't work out this time and all

those poor instant guys that died in that poor battle that is what it is. I can't believe I can't

get you people to understand my 1000 Vader analogy. It's not a thousand Vader. That's how not special

it is anymore. No it's 1000 kid fistos if you would have started with the 1000 kid fistos I'd

be like okay. All right so I won Eric over. No no you do not win me over. I don't agree with you.

I don't agree with your core point. What yeah I don't either because you're saying there's a

thousand chosen ones. I'm saying as I'm saying as a movie part of the prophecy watcher as a fan

just having that many lightsabers light up all at once it just

there I think that I did have a oh this is cool moment at the at the at that instant you know back

in 2002 but I it there's no way around the fact that it diminishes how special a lightsaber is.

I don't think it does. I still don't think it does as a viewer not as a fan.

I don't yeah I'm not following it. I'm not either. The only way I would take that is to mean just

like in anything else there are people that are better at it than other people.

These are the Jedi. This is the MVPs. Yeah these are the guys that have gone through the training.

I would go into a stormtrooper analogy but there's just no point anymore.

No they're not stormtroopers. They're well beyond I mean that's that's the point of them is that

they are super special and yeah there are going to be a bunch of super special people

and and Clone Wars is setting it up for all those special people to have

an ending you know. Okay so speaking of clones okay here's my question okay who

authorized and paid for the clone army? Tyrannus. Why didn't he go get them?

Because he he knows that he set up this whole army to come along at just the perfect spot

just the perfect spot that Yoda and them can't say no to. Really? They know they know yeah because

he knows that he's gonna be building his robot army or or Sidious does he's gonna be building

his robot army and they're gonna have to have an army. They're gonna have to have somebody to battle

them and if these clones show up at the perfect time. I'm increasingly feeling stupid in this

podcast. Didn't see that at all. I was I kept wondering why didn't he go get them?

And also too you gotta remember and this is this is the part that I didn't get until the comic that

we just read the Jango comic that we read last week that we did a podcast on is that I never

knew if Sifo-Dyas was actually the the actual Sifo-Dyas was the one that asked for the clones

but we showed in that comic last week that it really was Tyrannus acting as Sifo-Dyas. Right.

And he was using Sifo-Dyas' name. Does Doku want to win the war? No I think they just want to cause

chaos so that Palpatine can take over as the leader. I'm glad yeah I'm glad you're not going

I'm glad you brought this up because that was something I got this time and did not

get the first time I watched it.

And it became very clear to me this time because Doku does a really good job of acting

this out, of playing this, even to the Trade Federation and whoever else, that this will

never be stood for or whatever else.

And even I actually believed him.

He actually looks very sympathetic, that this is horrible.

When he meets with the Emperor at the end, he said everything went to plan.

Yeah, no, no.

And that's absolutely great acting by him.

Because you honestly feel that he's building this army to go defeat the clones and go defeat

the Republic.

And then he does even better acting, in my opinion, whenever it's got Obi-Wan all chained

up in the little blue glowy Star Trek thing.

And he's like, oh no, no, no.

Because he's playing almost three sides of the coin at that point, where he's like, oh

no, no, we'll have you released as soon as possible.

This wasn't what we were trying to plan on doing.

And you're like, oh no, see that guy's working for the Trade Federation.

And then you're like, wait a minute, no he's not.

He's not working for the Trade Federation.

And it's like, whoa, it's like a triple take.

Yeah, this is the Emperor playing all sides.

Yeah, totally.

And Tyrannus knows it the whole time too.

And also too, and we read the Doku Jedi Lost audio drama, you see that he has this whole

planet kind of backing him too.

So he has a planet that hated the Jedi.

So he can now go to anyone and say, hey, look, we're building an army to fight the Republic

and to fight the Jedi.

You know what I mean?

And he's got the back, he's got the background for it too.

It's a very interesting way to present the story, in my opinion.

And remember how that story ended.

They found a very, very rich resource that was going to make them independent.

So Doku's very rich.

So how do you guys feel about the inclusion of the Death Star plans in this movie?

It felt thrown into me.

Totally thrown in.

Like it pissed me off when I saw that.

Yeah, like I remember back in 2002.

Yeah, I remember watching it the first time being like, really?

I mean, it's like, give it a little bit more, you know, grace.

You've got the whole galaxy and a thousand different stories to play with.

You don't need to keep tying it back in.

Yeah.

And and then this one, it was like more egregious than anything.

I'm just like, really?

We're not we're doing this.

Oh, get off the planet.

You got to make sure you keep those plans safe.

And it's like, oh, we can have this discussion now.

We can have it later.

But I don't know.

Showing the plans with the Death Star was bad enough.

But then at the very end of three, where they're building the thing.

Yeah, no, no, it takes 18 years to build it.

And then they can build an even bigger one, like in three years or something.

Yeah, it's very it's a very.

There were a lot of I understood a lot of people's reaction.

And we won't jump too far ahead.

But a lot of people's reaction to JJ's first movie, where they're like, really?

I mean, it really is just like the constant like I don't even know what you call it.

There's probably a German word for it.

The constant thing.

Farfignoogin.

Farfignoogin.

It's your constant Farfignoogin in every movie where you're like, really?

Are we really talking about that again?

Are we really doing this again?

Yeah.

But somehow the Emperor has returned.

Like I remember I remember watching it the first time being like, whoa, OK, we're throwing

it back in there.

And then now this time I'm just like, oh, like it's like it's like an audible groan.

I'm like, I totally forgot about that part until I rewatched it.

And I was like, oh, I remember that distinctly.

I'm not going to I'm not going to give any spoilers.

I would just say that the discussion about the Death Star is the reason I like the Tarkin

book so much, because that's during that time, the construction of the.

Oh, no, no.

So don't don't get me wrong.

The Death Star itself, the original Death Star.

And again, and we'll talk about whenever we get there.

But Rogue One is probably one of my favorite Star Wars movies.

Like it is way up there now and it's continuing to be way up there as we rewatch these.

This is about the building of it and just like it's so not Star Wars.

I mean, it's like, you know, it's applied.

This would be like Jeff Bezos building supply chains.

And they get into that that kind of stuff.

I love this.

I love this.

This is awesome.

But yeah, I'm excited to read the Tarkin books.

I haven't read.

They are very good.

I love when we get there.

I never actually saw the end of Rogue One.

Did everybody make it out OK?

Yeah, they're OK.

Good, good, good, good.

Love those guys.

Even the little girl with the teddy bear.

I was really happy to see her get out.

That's where I was like, oh, yeah.

The very beginning you talked about your favorite scenes and I definitely like those three scenes.

And the scene that stands out to me, I look for it again specifically when I watch this.

And it is the look of distress on Dooku's face when he cuts off Anakin's arm.

I missed that.

I never noticed that.

I missed that too.

It's played.

But he looks very disturbed.

And it's a hint that he is not pure evil.

And again, you get that feeling, I think, even in his own book.

I did.

They're still good in him.

The audio drama.

Yeah.

He thinks the Republic has failed. He thinks the Republic is a mistake.

But he's not necessarily a bad guy. The Emperor is a bad guy.

I disagree with that. The only reason I disagree with that is because Jon and I read the Doku comic that happens before this.

And he's a mean bastard. He kills a kitty cat.

Yeah, he kills a kitty cat. He's ruthless. And honestly, unless I had read that comic, I would have thought the exact same thing that you're thinking, William.

Because you're kind of like, and I'll be honest with you, I did not pick up on the distressed face after he cuts Anakin's arm off.

Yeah, go watch it again. I watched it like three times and Shannon agreed as well.

But also too, he may have a distressed face after cutting Anakin's thing, but he's not above throwing that big old item on him at the very end, whatever that thing was, to escape.

Yeah, I think he knew.

He knew Yoda would make that choice.

It was a distraction, what you're saying? I'll make him use his power on this?

I will really have to go look at that, because if that's there, as you see it, that does not fit in with the character as I understand it.

The only reason I say this is because of that comic.

Yeah, he kills that Jedi. Boom. You're dead. You're no longer useful.

Well, no, but Anakin has a special role. He already knows about Anakin.

What, through Qui-Gon with the prophecy thing?

Right. I'm sure the Emperor may have led on as well, because he knows that Anakin's there with him all the time and being trained and all that good stuff.

But anyway, hearing what you're talking about the comic book, I think that...

At this point, Anakin has not started training or anything, though.

What? No, no. In the beginning of this movie, he talks about how much time he's... he thanked the... well, not the Emperor, he thanked the... what is his title?

Chancellor.

Chancellor. How much he's actually learned from him. So the Chancellor's been training him all along.

Doku.

No, not Doku. Palpatine.

Oh, no, wait, wait, wait. He does, and he says, I've had your guidance, but I felt that was more for the political spectrum, not anything related to Jedi-ish.

Well, no, no, not Jedi-ish. I'm talking about...

Not Jedi-ish.

No, just like his... how he sees the universe. I mean, how he sees...

Yeah, agreed. Agreed with that. I agree.

Yeah, and... but... unfortunately, I think that based on what you're saying, that makes the comic book sound like it's doing a disjustice to the movie of what it was trying to portray, because if you go and... I don't know how else to defend my argument other than mentioning the next movie, he has the same distressed look on his face.

Well, no, you can defend it very well by saying that...

He doesn't want to kill Anakin.

Right. Anakin in particular. Other Jedi that have him get in the way, cut him down.

Yeah, hell yeah.

I agree with that part, and the reason I agree with that part is in Master Apprentice he talks about... they talk about how Doku was actually one of the ones that would look at the holocrons and actually know the prophecy that Qui-Gon learned of.

So, I mean, I completely agree with you there, and I believe that's probably a pretty good catch, because I think you probably are correct with, like, he thinks he could have killed him, and then he thinks he would have ruined everything.

And he didn't. I mean, think about how many chances he would have had to have killed him. He just threw him to the side.

Well, right, yes, and I was going to say that he does have every opportunity to go over there and just stab him, like, cut his head off.

Yeah, and he doesn't.

And I think that's why he's so horrified later on when he does fight Anakin in the next movie.

Do it.

Yeah, yes, the do it scene. That's... basically I think that...

So, just to make sure we're on the same page, though, Doku would have that face after he cut Anakin's arm off because Doku feels that Anakin is part of this prophecy that he honestly, in Qui-Gon, believed in.

He has a special purpose.

He has a special purpose, but he does not foresee him becoming the next Darth, the next Padawan for Sidious, right?

What? No, he can't, right? Because that means he's dead.

Exactly. He has a role to fulfill in prophecy.

Right, he has a role to fulfill in the whole plan, but he still does not have any inclination that he's going to be taking over his role.

But don't doubt for a second, and this is probably, again, why it would have bothered him.

I mean, he knows how it works, the Master and Apprentice.

When he was talking to Obi-Wan, if Obi-Wan wouldn't have said, yeah, let's do it, they would have... I mean, he would have gone after the Emperor right then.

And I'm sure it's the same way with Anakin. If you can get Anakin to come with him, then yeah.

Oh yeah, Tyrannus is gone at that point. I totally agree with that. Because he is the chosen one, and I get that.

I'm just saying that I think your facial expression of Tyrannus is because he knows that that kid is super special, not necessarily because he's the chosen one.

Oh, no, no, I'm saying because he's super special

Yeah, I don't think he has any idea about the dark side thing

I'm saying he did not want to hurt Anakin agree

He didn't want to hurt Anakin solely because he didn't want to mess up the plan right, right

Yeah, he truly believes in the prophecy and he believes that Anakin is gonna be the one that brings balance to force

He has no clue how

Right, and he has no clue that it's gonna be him is Anakin taking over his job. I just remembered

Did anybody also arm bands? I forgot to look for arm bands. Oh, yeah, Doku's got our bands

He's what Doku's the lost. That's why he's got. Yeah, that's why he's got it. But they're uh, they're

Yeah, that's the only arm band I think that we would see in this movie and we would see it at that last fight scene

I

Will go for two reasons now. I'll go watch that last night scene

There's two things that we gotta look for is number one

We gotta look for the our bands and number two, we have to look for the Lance Armstrong bracelets that show up in certain scenes

To let you know that they're against

Like

Yes, I said our beds the yellow bracelets that were I really thought you were starting to talk about like, you know a Starbucks

I'm just cracking up laughing that like like people would like go and watch the movie to look for those little like plastic yellow

Or bands that everybody had like wait what five or six years ago?

Maybe that just means something. No, it doesn't mean anything. I think you're janking on my arm band collection. I don't care

With William talking about Doku's expression when he slices off Anakin's arm forearm arm

Is it the whole arm? No

I think it's a forearm. Did you guys pick up on when he gets away and Padme is rushing out to shoot at his ship?

Yeah, the expression on her face

To me, that's the same expression because of the Empire Parallels, but Leia had

Firing at Boba Fett's ship. Oh

Desperation I did not catch that. That was a throw

I don't know even though it's a totally different area right because her lovers not on that ship

Well, and and she's flat-out wearing Leia's out pretty much the same thing. Yeah, that's that's

That's good. That's good. That's good. That's good. That's good. Echo. That was good. Let's get Echo. Yeah Echo

That's a good word for it, too

Good Echo. I

Really did not catch that. It's pretty good

And the last last the last fight scene because we have to address Yoda

Okay

I do want to say

Fight scene has a really big place in my heart because I always remember that was probably the first instance inside of a movie

That when we went and saw it opening night people burst out cheering at that

Yes, absolutely. Like when it when it when that thing flies across and he grabs it like I remember literally people in the theater screaming

Like oh

Like it's just like it was good. Whoa when he grabs what?

What his lightsaber flies across and gets into his hand

Okay, he flips his he flips his thing. Yeah. Yeah, okay

I'm with any draws the light like it flies through the air into his hand

I there's nothing I can say here that is any different from what the red letter media guys

Say about how that scene

Diminishes all of The Force everything set up to that point

Okay, so let's not get into a a

a review of their show their content, but I

Need to have some points here because I think that's that it's not the best scene in the movie by any means

But it's a pretty good scene. Yeah didn't care for it. Well, and if you go back here for the flipping and stuff

I don't I do not care for Yoda flipping around like a pinball

Okay, now you may not as much but back then no did not then did not

Nope, that was not his character. That is not his use of The Force William. Did you enjoy that scene? I

I

Did but I agree with John favorite scene. I'm just saying it's no no

I mean as far as that movie went when I first saw it that was pretty badass

But at the same time as a Star Wars nerd it irritated me

Okay

To me was a clear case clear case of umping the ante itis

You know, we have to everybody wants to see Yoda fight a lightsaber duel. So we got to show you

Yoda fighting a lightsaber duel. What is the problem with upping the ante? You've said that three times on this podcast

What is the problem with upping the ante?

Because it takes the rules that you've established and then chucks them aside for the rule of cool

Wait, wait, wait. Okay the rule of cool. That's a good term, but I gotta go back. That's a TV trip thing

Okay, so what what is?

What is upping the ante here like that?

You get to see Yoda actually fight like a normal Jedi would which we heard about in Doki Jedi Lost

Is it upping the ante or upping the ante?

Ante the ante

That's terrible

The other one's up

Let's not say that. Alright, so upping the ante. Raising the stakes, okay? Raising the stakes.

What's wrong with that though? As a trope, what is wrong with that?

Uh, I can't think of a good analogy fast enough other than, let's say you had a thousand invaders.

I just realized you guys missed my pun. Yes, totally. Did you say pun? Anakin Skywalker.

No, up in the ante. No, I agree with you. I said up in the ante. Okay, okay.

I was trying to draw that out because I was thinking of, I was thinking, sorry, I was thinking of the poor little girl that sang songs.

I was like, can we please avoid that at all? Yes, I think we can avoid little orphan Annie in our Star Wars podcast.

Apparently no we can't. I get it now. That was very good, William. I apologize. I missed it.

I thought it was actually pretty clever, yeah. I'm sorry, John. Go ahead.

Yeah, go ahead, John. But what is wrong with upping the ante?

I mean, if you don't see why that's wrong, look at it this way.

They had a satellite-sized or, you know, moon-sized Death Star in the first film.

And so what do they do again? They make it again, but at this time it's like, how much bigger? Like really big?

And then later on we see it's like, no, it's not just like a moon-sized thing. It's a whole planet thing called the Starkiller Base.

Okay, so for those films, that is a main driving part of the film and what the characters that you love are trying to be.

I get that. I get that. I don't understand what upping the ante is for Yoda, specifically, jumping around with a lightsaber, when we know he can do it.

No, I didn't know he could do that. Why would I know he could do that?

All I've seen of this character is him hobbling around, sitting in floating chairs.

At the time that you first watched that movie, I agree with that. It's been fleshed out in Doku Jodo Lost and other stuff, so it's post-production of this movie.

He is the elderly learned master. Sage wisdom. Sage wisdom. And if he does choose to fight, his moves are more studied and muted and powerful, because he knows what he's doing.

So there is the part where he catches the lightning. Yes, that's a good one.

And Doku, of course, is like, I see that we're equal in The Force, or whatever it is, and they bust other lightsabers.

Yes.

You've never seen him with a lightsaber. How do we know he's supposed to be? Do you think he's this...

Well, that's a good part of it. He busts out this stumpy little Yoda green lightsaber.

Okay, you're going to make fun of Yoda's lightsaber now, Jon.

And it's short. It's so short.

But it's got girth.

I know, it's what he does with it.

That's how he works.

Okay, anyway, we've already...

But it has to be that way, because...

Could you picture Yoda holding a full-size, a man-size lightsaber?

No, you cannot.

Yeah, I agree. But it's supposed to be his lightsaber. It's what he does with it. It's the acrobatics that is his key thing for fights.

I mean, you've got to remember, Yoda taught Doku...

Something I've never seen from this character before.

Agreed. Oh my gosh, we've got character development? Shut it down.

There's a difference between character development and character out of nowhere.

It's interesting, Jon has actually hit on a point that he can't know yet.

Keep rolling crits, man.

Let's not talk about it. I think I know what you're referring to, but let's not talk about it yet.

Just remember what you said, Jon.

Yes.

About Yoda's stumpy lightsaber.

Four years from now, when we get to this episode.

I don't remember the beginning of this podcast.

I'm drinking beer. Wait, what?

So it's just... I don't... It's fan-service-y, I agree with that.

Yeah, very fan-service-y.

But it's not fan-service-y in a nostalgia way. It's fan-service-y in a, I've never seen this. I've never seen this side of Yoda. This is great.

It made the Dragon Ball Z fans really happy.

I admit that I think that they may have overplayed their hand a little bit, putting him in the electronic wheelchair thing, when they're walking through the thing.

Because then you're just reinforcing the fact that he's old and infirm. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Do you guys know what I'm talking about? When they're walking through the Jedi Palace, in his little floaty half-pod thing?

Yeah, the floaty pod thing.

Yeah, and it's like, now you're making me want to be like, oh, he's really old, he can't do anything anymore.

And then you're like, oh, look at him! Yeah, I agree with that. That's a little...

Oh, I think you have to assume that all his movements are 100% force, not anything physical.

That he is literally, he's using The Force to move himself, not his own body.

That's an interesting take, that I did not...

No, I hadn't thought about that either. I have to reevaluate that.

I assume that's the only way he could, because he's a cripple.

Like you said.

So you're saying that he's actually using The Force to jump around everywhere and everything.

Okay, I thought...

Like a puppet.

Like he's a Force puppet.

Yes, he is so freaking good at The Force that he moves himself as an object.

I did not think of it in those terms.

I thought he was clearly using The Force to do what he was doing, but not like he was a Force puppet.

If you can understand the difference there.

I guess that's just how my brain accepted it.

I love that.

I love the idea that he's yanking himself on the strings.

I've always felt that that was actually him holding himself back.

And he could do that if he really, really had to.

Not as a Force puppet.

But The Force puppet is an interesting idea.

I did not think about that.

I don't know if he's right.

That's just the way I always thought.

So you guys, Jon, you did not like that.

It sounds like, William, you're kind of mediocre with that scene.

Yeah, I just don't think he would have fought that way.

That's my only thing.

I like watching it.

But yeah.

So, also, too, the big thing that was about to fall on Obi-Wan and Anakin.

I felt like that was kind of a weird way for Dooku to get out of there.

To get out of town.

And also, too, his ship is so slow.

You know that they can catch up with that thing, the Solar Sailor.

It's very stylish, though.

It is stylish.

It's like a Cadillac.

I get it.

They covered that because as soon as he got above and out of the atmosphere,

those were all Trade Federation ships up there.

Oh, okay.

So nobody's going to mess with him because he's up there.

I didn't think about that part.

But the ship's just so slow.

You're just like, come on, guys.

Just get the ship and go chase it.

That part made no sense.

You're deploying a solar sail.

That, again, to me, that was rule of cool.

It looks super cool.

It makes no sense.

See you in the next system like a century from now.

Let me say this.

Let me say this.

I don't know about everything else, but I agree with the see you in the next century part of it.

But also, too, if you don't have engines, if you don't need engines, does that make you cloakable or anything?

I don't know.

No.

He's Doku, damn it.

Yeah, he can do it.

He's Doku, damn it.

He's Tyranus at this point.

Tyranus.

Also, too, how does Palpatine get out of his political duties so much?

Like, he's in this, like, at the very end of the movie, he's in this, like, old broken down building waiting for Tyranus to get back.

I mean, does a guy not have people on him, like, 24-7 being the chancellor?

Like, he's got to have some kind of, like, secret service or something.

I think that alludes to the main Sith power.

Devil's actions.

Well, yeah, that and his right-hand man gets covered heavily in the future.

Okay, okay.

I don't know that part.

The guy with the tentacles and the horns?

Yeah, the guy that looks like a devil.

Okay, okay, let's keep it there because I don't know that part and I want to see that.

I want to know what that is.

That's pretty good.

The guy that says, if only Senator Amidala were here.

Yes.

Okay.

Oh, okay.

All right.

That's interesting.

Yes, he plays a major role in future books.

It's funny how in that one line, to me, they were trying to convey exactly that.

Like, this guy's more important than you think he is.

Oh, yeah, very important.

Oh, yeah, that was a total play.

I agree with that.

And you see it as a play.

I can't say anything else.

Favorite line from the movie?

I'm beside myself.

I love that.

Because he says, this is such a drag, and then followed by, I'm beside myself.

I'm glad you enjoyed that.

You know, the eight-year-old you must have really enjoyed that.

I found that so annoying.

I love C-3PO.

Come on, now.

If you can't handle C-3PO humor.

Okay, wait, wait, wait.

I'm going to take back what I said earlier.

Let's discuss the whole factory scene.

Is that a good scene to you guys or not?

That's an art.

That is a video game scene.

Yes.

Agree.

Agree.

To make video games in the future, we're going to put this scene in there.

Yeah, I agree with that.

It's a terrible, terrible scene.

All the Geonosis stuff is just kind of mediocre for me.

Like, I enjoyed what I talked about.

We talked about the Coliseum thing.

And that's not bad.

But the whole factory thing was just, oh, man.

I was like, oh, no, here comes another bad machine.

Uh-oh, who's going to get out of it?

I don't know.

Well, and we have there in this film, we have, you remember how Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon Jinn use force speed one time?

And only one time.

I never noticed they even did that until the second time I watched it.

And so here we have R2 using his little jet thrusters.

One time.

And if I'm not wrong, only one time?

Yeah, that was it.

There's stuff coming up.

Yeah, I agree.

That's just lazy writing.

The head switching thing was, it's for kids.

I get it.

And I get that.

Yeah, sure, that's fine.

I don't care.

That's classic CGPO.

Yeah, sure.

What about, what about, uh...

What about Anakin's lightsaber getting broken?

Oh god, no.

Or his arm getting pinned down or whatever.

Oh, I think that whole thing was an arcade game.

And then also too, I know that they throw them lightsabers whenever they land with the clones and stuff, but it's still weird. It's still a weird scene.

Oh wait, I'm so glad you said that.

So one of the things you have to do as a Jedi, right, to become a Jedi Knight,

one of the final things is you have to construct your own lightsaber because it's special to you and it's with you and The Force and all that.

And then they just toss them some. Like, here's some extras.

We keep this in stock. We have backups.

What color do you want? You want green?

This is Henry's. Take good care of it.

We don't have any red. We're fresh out of red. Sorry.

Henry just built his own after three years. Don't mess it up.

Yeah, it's a very...

Shut up.

It's a very weird scene too. Also too, the way he pulls it up when it's broken.

And it does this little weird puff of smoke thing.

Yeah. To make it clear, it's broken.

Yeah, I know. But it's just kind of like, oh.

He can still fix it. No, it's broken. I saw a puff of smoke.

Yeah, it's done. It's done. Completely done. He's going to need some help.

Yeah, I gloss over that whole scene because it's just whatever.

Well, then the next scene is the worst scene in the whole movie where they're chained up in the thing waiting to go out.

And you're just like, oh.

Oh, in the arena? Yeah.

With the monsters? I had to come up with names for them.

So, you ready? You ready for it? Yep. I'm ready.

Slaying Mantis.

Ooh, that's pretty good.

The Trino.

And Murder Cat.

Murder Cat's good. I like Murder Cat.

Trino, I'm a little hung up with. Slaying Mantis is pretty good though.

It's like a Rhino, but he's got three horns. It's a Trino.

Slaying Mantis I had a problem with because it's the exact same monster that's in Witcher.

Really? Who is it? I never noticed that.

Witcher 1. I don't know if it's in the series or not.

I can't remember. The series is too boring to me.

What year did that come out?

Slaying Mantis.

I was actually trying to figure out which came first, Witcher or that, to look at when the video game was made.

Slaying Mantis, I'm pretty positive this came out before Witcher 1, but Slaying Mantis, that was a cool looking character.

The cat looked like an Alice in Wonderland thing with just a big smile.

Yes.

And also too, the part where she gets scratched is a weird scene to me.

Well, it's to show you that there is danger.

You can tend to think they're immortal.

She's just a kid, right? She's just a human.

She's not a kid. We've already explained this. She's in her mid-twenties.

But she's not a super weapon Jedi.

Think about Queen Shadow too. She's been through some stuff. She knows stuff.

But yes, I agree that it is about to show that there is real danger here, unless they get rescued.

Danger.

And to remind you of her vulnerability. That's why that's there.

Yes, and she's not a Jedi. I agree with that.

And she's fighting a monster just the same level as the Jedi too.

And she's expected to hold her own because they're not caring about her at all.

Until Anakin decides to.

Just like Princess Leia.

What do you guys think about Jango and Boba?

We've already talked about Boba the Rapper and Boba the Annoying Baxley Driver, but what about Jango and Boba in general as characters?

Try.

Yes, there's not that much there.

I like Timon Morrison's character in this movie too.

I thought he was pretty good. I think Boba, the younger Boba, is kind of an annoying thing.

Getting to the parallels with Empire, I will say that Cloud City has always been a favorite of mine.

And Kamino evokes that same sort of vibe.

I agree with that. I totally agree with that.

It really has this ethereal vibe to it.

I never thought about that, but even the basic architecture feels like it is.

So, you're talking about the water planet?

Water planet. Yeah, Kamino.

I don't know if this is the podcast for this or if we have to wait until the next movie.

But the clones obviously being part of the Emperor's plan, did they know about it?

Did the clones themselves know about it? No.

No, not the clones. The people who were creating it. How the hell did they create all these clones?

I feel that they really felt that they were dealing with somebody named Seifo Dias that was for the Jedi.

They make it very clear in the movie that if you have money, what do you want?

Yeah, they don't care.

And when Obi-Wan comes, they're really thinking that he's coming to check up on their project.

They have no qualms at all. You want them to have six arms? Okay, sure, we'll do that.

Well, not that, but the order that turns them evil.

I thought what was interesting though is that I say that, but yet I feel like the Kaminoans knew necessarily that Seifo Dias,

they probably thought that Tyrannus being Seifo Dias was actually a Jedi.

But in that same scene with Jango though, he literally says, I was hired by a guy named Tyrannus.

Kamino and standing like right behind him. I don't you I think you're right. I think it goes to show they don't get they don't care

Actually, didn't they say that a begin to that before that they would do anything?

Jester yeah, Jester's like they'll do anything for money. Yeah, yeah, that's yeah

But I'm just saying though that I always kind of assumed that they honestly felt that they were dealing with the Jedi the whole time

But she literally is standing right next to Jango when he says no, I was approached by getting tyrannous to be the template

Yeah, so I yeah, so maybe again John to John's point. They don't care

Yeah, as long as it's getting paid and they're shipping them off to wherever they need to go. They're fine with it

She's like I hear nothing. I know nothing. I

Enjoyed that. I enjoyed the and I don't know what language it was in but the

Boba go close the door scene. I thought that was pretty well done. So I mean, it's it's pretty well known that everybody thinks that the the

Spoken dialogue of this movie is terrible, but I really

I maybe it was my age whenever I watched it for the first time in 2002

But I feel like as a parent now like I know how whiny Anakin is in this movie like just pure whiny

and it's just like

He doesn't think I'm ready like the whole scene where she's packing up her suitcase

And he's like out of nowhere one doesn't think yeah, no way

He's been thinking about this like all day and she like has this like little word that she says or something that like tips him

Off and he's like, all right, here it goes. Here comes the barrage. I mean, he goes, oh, he what doesn't think so

I'm like, where does this come from?

Like are you just keeping it bottled up or like they say something to your breakfast?

They just made you mad like what is what is this whininess?

And I think that probably Lucas wanted him to be the whiny teenager in this, you know, blah blah blah

Well, no, no, no, not not the one. I don't think he wanted to be the one he's usually wanted to be

he wanted to show that he's he's

What is the he's straining the leash at the reins? He's pulling

It's my Palpatine influenced by Palpatine like Palpatine so they're telling them you're gonna be the biggest Jedi ever

They're holding back over but then yeah, but then yeah, one's the one that's like no. No, you're not ready yet

Yeah, I get it it's just I think that the way that it's presented to me is the problem

It just feels awkward at some points and you're just like, okay

Then I don't understand why Padme was just like why are you telling me this?

Like at that point in the movie, you know, I mean cuz they hadn't gone on their trip yet or anything like that

She still sees him as Annie, you know, and she's got to be like, what are you telling me this for in the handmaidens?

But I've got to be like

Creep alert

Creeper like get her out of here, dude. I mean, this is like this is like 2 a.m

At the bar get out go home, you know, have you seen some of the guys that girls fall for?

It's just it's just a weird scene like it's just a weird overall scene like and she like just keeps staring at him like okay

I'll listen to you and I'm like she wants to fix him. She wants to fix him. I don't know

He's still with that's just like the the way this part of it

What about the accent? Where the hell's accent come from? I think I think the accent is supposed to show a

transition maybe from like his

tattooing

life

to like this new life where he's trying to adapt to like, you know, the city the Jedi and he's also trying to be all

Like sophisticated for Padme and that's what I get out of it

But yeah, there's definitely a change of the way he says certain words, but I that scene in other scenes

That's why this movie was always weird to me because he doesn't have it in the episode 1. It doesn't have an episode 3

Well, I think episode 3 he doesn't care anymore. Like he's not trying to put up fronts

Yeah, like he does he's not trying to prove to anybody that he's anything

He's like I am you know what I mean? Like I'm I'm I'm gonna destroy you

Yeah, I mean it's it's pretty much like this is me and you can like it or not

It doesn't really matter at this point

Whereas in number two, I think you still try to please the Jedi. He's trying to appease Obi-Wan

He's trying to peace, you know other people and I think it's a front to try to make him look good

I also do like whenever she whenever she

Rebutts him whenever he says, excuse me, milady

Like I'm the security person here, whatever it is, and that's another awkward moment where the other way is like, okay

Oh, we do here, you know, so I I don't know. That's my that's my take on it

To me. I think that it

Just been reading too much Shakespeare or something

The and also that Shakespeare exists. It's a galaxy far far away. I think the fact that uh,

George Lucas directed this himself is also telling

Just based on like the original Star Wars and what we heard about that that basically the actors were left on their own to figure

Out what the hell they're supposed to be doing

The East and those actors did a great job. Yes

But I think he played it like okay. Do you guys not remember the drunk mode John?

You probably do because you're probably one of them the drama kids in high school. They were just like that guy

How dare you Anakin they were I?

Wanted to punch them I mean I am a nerd I was a nerd and I wanted to punch him in the face

Well, there's nerds and there's drama nerds. Thank you. Yes, because they thought they were so good

I'm so smart and

pompous and they say in to the show

Into the human element

They would talk and say things like my lady and and one of my my friends try to get in that I do

If you start doing this, I just cannot hang around you. Yeah

It's like I don't want to hear crap like my lady and he was trying to court this girl and doing crap like that

Just like this in court. You just said court this girl. Yeah, he said that on purpose. That's

Yeah

I mean he would like, you know bend over and you know, take her hand and mail lady and

That's what I have flashbacks of that entire time watching those scenes

So I want to know I got two questions for you number one

I want to hear your favorite line in the movie and number two

I want to hear your favorite character of the movie doesn't it can be somebody you've seen in other movies or up into this up into

this point that you've seen but like who stands out for you

Favorite line John I

Don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere

Not like here here. Everything is soft and smooth

And now I sexually assault you

It's cliche I know it's cliche it's a weird holy crap that is the worst freaking line in the movie

It's pretty bad. It's pretty bad. And then when you then when you kind of like

She's wearing the bare shoulders thing. Yeah, that's that's there's no way around that which is a great dress by the way

Yeah, that was that was the that was worse than the I don't remember

I'd had to just paraphrase you probably remember than me, but the

the

The love doesn't kill you every day like it does me, you know, oh, yeah, that's that's pretty bad. Yeah

That was even the sled scene either. No, that was even the sled scenes by far the worst scene dialogue

why is this old movie but that would happen even before like that was like a

Where was that? I remember that like I'm dying every day

Yeah, that was when they were that was after the pair thing, right when they're in the by the fire

Yeah, that was right after that's what it was. Yeah, the fire. That's a weird scene. That'll fire. Yeah, it's just so creepy

Why aren't you running the hell out?

Yeah, just or at least ask for lights or something like you just

That was what was so shocking me when I was just like the whole thing

We'll have to talk to my wife about it and she goes now you'd be surprised. I'm like really

That's a different take on this William, yeah, I'm haunted by the kiss

I say if you take that that that 20 minutes out of the movie

Maybe we just didn't have Anakin talk at all and the entire movie

He's force muted

So I've got I've got my favorite line is actually not the line itself, but the reaction afterwards

It's don't worry. We have our two with us and then it's the like fakest laughs

You've ever heard from both characters with their walk. Do you think those are you think those are forced like fake laughs?

I thought okay. I took it differently. I took it as I

Guess I took it as bad acting like this. It's meant to be funny, huh?

But it wasn't really funny like as a nervous laughter

Like you think the characters know actually I can get a genuinely bad acting

I really did was one moment. Oh, no. No, that's the way generally thought that it was

It was just bad acting like it was meant to be I I don't have a problem what you're saying

I'm probably agree with it in that context now. I look at it that way

No, you're saying we're saying the same thing. Like it's the most weirdest awkward laughs afterwards

Like there's a scene again. I'm going back to where I think obi-wan had actually good lines and stuff

There's a scene where they're going up or down up the elevator

I think at a very very very beginning scene in the movie after the assassination attempt and

And

Anakin says something to the to the I forget the exact line, but he's like like that time I saved you from those gun darts

Yeah, and then there's like a pause and then everyone laughs. Yes, but it waits like he waits like the perfect comedic

That's another example. I think of that that that it I wasn't sold. It's like that's an actor

Doing that. Yeah. Yeah. No, I don't think he was directed. I think he was just like

He had great timing on that and I really enjoyed it much like the much like the way you're doing a good job

You know line like it's it's built in to him

Not the director not the caster and it may not have even been scripted

But then you go to the scene where you're like, well, don't worry. We have our two with us and it's like

Weird is so weird. It's like oh man, the cringe like like a cringe worthy scene

But you're saying are you saying that that you think the characters?

Were forcibly like laughing at the no, no, no, no, we're the actors

I'm saying the actors on script. It says both characters laugh. Yeah, and they're both like a weird laugh. All right

Well, yeah, we're on the same page

I do disagree with you with a be one thing because to me that I saw the actor there

I don't ever want to see the actor and I don't want to see the actor on screen. I don't want to see the actor on screen

And I saw the actor.

It says here I have to remember this funny

the scenario from our past. Yes.

I agree with you. It was awful.

I agree with you, John.

Yep.

Yeah, so that was my favorite line

and probably bad scene directly following.

And there's tons. There's tons of bad.

And don't get me wrong, the kid that plays Boba,

you know, I probably didn't have tons of experience.

It was just like, there was weirdness in there.

He was like, like, and I say that,

but let me re-review.

Who's your favorite character?

Oh, my favorite. OK, yes. So I was gonna ask you guys

what your favorite line was your favorite character.

My favorite character is Liam. You guys remember Liam?

Neeson? Great.

He's not in this film.

The character Liam from this Star Wars.

I think that we should have a whole spin-off series

on Disney+ Plus about Liam.

We don't know who the hell he is.

You guys don't know who Liam is? No.

He is the absolute most powerful Jedi

in the entire universe.

This is either a joke

or spilling out of something.

No, it's not a joke.

If you remember, when Obi-Wan goes into

the youngling's room, Yoda

asks Liam specifically

to close the blinds.

Like, Liam gets a shout-out. He's like,

Liam, the blinds, please.

All Liam does all day long

is get the blinds. That's all he does for Yoda.

He's like Yoda's blind servant.

Yeah, but isn't he the one that also confronts Anakin

and, well,

that Anakin.

Obi-Wan goes in to find his missing planet.

Right?

Yeah, I was talking about that.

Yoda, for some reason, makes a specific call-out.

I know, I know.

He makes a specific call-out.

He's the first kid that Anakin killed.

He's just like, can you get the blinds, Liam?

But he says it so nonchalantly,

like, Liam gets the blinds all the effing time.

Liam is sick of blind work.

He's Yoda's pet.

He's sick of blind work. Yeah, he's just like, I'm not doing this.

Fine, Obi-Wan's planet, we will.

So, obviously, if Yoda can puppet himself around the room,

he can get the freaking blinds.

Exactly!

So if he's telling the kid to get the blinds,

that's more training.

That's my point. He has The Force to get the blinds,

but he specifically asked Liam about them.

Like, what does Liam do?

I'm going to take a different take on that.

I think Liam was the special child.

He was telling Liam to get the blinds,

because that's all Liam can do.

I agree with John.

He's a special needs Jedi.

I'm going to make Liam feel special

and tell him to do the one thing he's good at.

Closing the blinds.

And talking to tadpoles.

And Liam, to be fair, in the movie,

Liam's not well enough with The Force yet

to be able to force close the blinds.

He still has to actually walk over there and close the blinds.

That's how special he is.

He can't even close the blinds with The Force.

Again, that's why at one point he's just sitting there staring

at Anakin carrying a red lightsaber.

Poor Liam.

Poor Liam.

I don't think Liam's the same kid.

You want me to close these blinds?

I think Anakin, in episode 3,

walks in and starts killing younglings.

Liam's going to the blinds.

He's going over there and

hitting things, man.

He's going to the blinds.

Anakin with the one liner.

Lights out.

Oh, poor Liam.

He tries so hard.

It's so terrible.

We need to make a new series.

It's going to be like the lower deck of Star Wars.

Liam the blind guy.

Liam, decorating The Force.

Decorating The Force.

The poor Jedi there.

The poor Jedi there.

They're forced to work in the library all day long.

Man.

There was another call out to another kid though.

The Jocasta News.

The Jocasta News is the old lady at the library.

She goes over and starts,

after Anakin can't find his planet,

she goes over and starts talking to some kid.

The kid looks scared of Jocasta News.

I don't know what he did to get in there.

If you remember back from Doku Jedi Lost,

they had to go to the library to work

after they did their little infiltration mission

in the library.

As punishment, they had to go to work.

That kid must have done something really serious.

He can tell on the side of his face,

Jocasta News is pissed.

She can't find planets.

Nobody wanted to excuse her for being wrong.

You just caused me to change my favorite line.

What is your favorite line, William?

My new favorite line,

well first I'll tell you what my

original favorite line was.

My original one was the cliche, which is

you'll be the death of me.

Yes, that's it.

I remember cracking up

when that happened.

That's the chuckle for everyone in the audience

the first time they see it.

But now it is,

if the Jedi archives doesn't

have it, it doesn't exist.

That shows the arrogance of the Jedi.

We get it, William.

Jedi are arrogant.

Why are you defending the Jedi?

I'm not defending the Jedi.

They are arrogant.

Drop the hammer. That was good.

I never thought about that.

She says that and just walks away.

Drop mic.

Obi-Wan, you are wrong.

Listen child, I mean it is like you are way off and then Yoda's like, oh, yeah, you're probably right

Let's go back to the post Liam air of this movie

The whole mouth of babe scene is pretty good though. That's a pretty well-written thing

Yeah, knowing episode 3 and you know, we should be talking about but I'd be said with Episode 2 like, you know

when the little kids like well, they can't find the planet because

And then you notice there's something about the babes is quote like

The kid the the wisdom of kids or something. I forget what exactly what he says, but it's a good it's good

Way to kind of make you love this kids

They all get murdered

It's a good it's a good way to make

Man, I never thought about how all the young kids go train and how cute it is and God is teaching them and you know

How cute it is again, they're standing like three feet apart waving lightsabers all around like wearing

Oh shields, that's right. Oh

That that fixture issue you remember that you said that you had issues

With the blast shields because it was supposed to be like something novel that we won't picked up

But if you notice those washers are

Made for just that those are yes. That's not what we're talking about. That's not safety. Oh

I'm actually way too tired and drink way too much white Russian to

See this argument to this end. I'm just gonna accept it at the Liam. It's gonna headbutt everybody. Yeah

I'm gonna accept that answer

I'm going with it. I'm done. The lightsaber was the wrong way kids arms laying on the ground

All right, I'm telling you Liam needs his own series

At this point yes, I want to see the end the special Jedi

Have you guys seen the word act cuz that's pretty much what it is

I need to watch that. That sure sounds very fun. Oh my gosh. That's what we've named our teams at work

We have we have lower deck and then I'm the head. I'm the head of the lower deck

All right, so I mean I wait what is your favorite character

Favorite character

Probably gonna go with C-3PO

Okay. Okay. I

Really enjoyed saying you just feel like the reintroduction of him and like oh, yeah on the farm and everything. Yeah, I

Just I've always been a sucker for his one-liners and just his I don't know. I like his character

Yeah, I liked I like everything where he's on the farm where he has a human quality and knowing that he shouldn't discuss

Shmue with any yet. That was actually very cool. And that's a that's a really cool like like like add and think is you know

It's a robot. So the robots gonna be like, okay

Well, I'll tell you what happened but like it's a really good like we should go inside and discuss it like it's a very human

Emotion to say that I mean like you need to go talk to clique about this. This is not my not my above my paygrade

You know, I mean, yeah

Basically humanism of both C-3PO and r2d2. They've already done it for r2d2 several times

But right right and C-3PO as well. He's not a robot. Yeah. No, I agree with that. That's a good call

I like that John. What was your favorite character?

It's Liam

Yeah, who's your favorite character besides Liam

Overall, it would have to be obi-wan. I mean that that's the one that I didn't mess with, you know

He's got that cool ship. He's flying around trying to solve mysteries

Jedi detective. Yeah, only they would make a series about that

Maybe they will

So did you guys I have to bring this up just because I thought it was so so funny

I

Posted you guys earlier in the week on our discord

I sent you guys a link saying that they were gonna start recording in Boston about Kenobi. Yes

It cracks me up because they're not actually recording in Boston in the US. They're recording in Boston in the UK. Oh

I didn't catch that. No. No the original

City of Boston thought that they were gonna be filming in Boston. Oh, wow and Boston

Massachusetts got really excited about it. I

Got really excited about it turns out. It's actually a Boston in the UK. I think I think it's UK and

They just said Boston's everybody could have assumed that it was the Boston over here. I said Boston not Baston

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It wasn't wicked. It was like

Like I just thought that the

the fact that the

Boston newspapers

Canopy and everybody and everybody said it was like, okay, you're filming Tatooine in Boston. Like it was just a weird

Thing to begin with but they were I guess everybody's gonna put it behind their back like, okay

I guess so they've always filmed most of Star Wars in England, right? That's what I'm saying

Yeah, it makes way more sense.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's over there.

But I just thought it was funny that everybody was like, Oh, Boston.

They're making Boston jokes.

And it was like, this big thing.

Well, everybody had to have the same reaction.

Boston?

Yeah, totally.

Yeah, I totally agree.

Yeah.

All those all those Massachusett accent Imperials, you know.

Oh, the jokes were themselves with that.

It was like perfect.

And then it turns out, I just think it's funny that there's actually another Boston somewhere

else.

And nobody ever thinks of that.

It's just a very funny, like, way to go about it.

I have my post-podcast duty now to find out more about Boston, UK.

Yeah.

I think it's UK.

Don't quote me on that, but I'm pretty sure it was in the UK.

I still wish I could know what it would be like if it was raised British and to notice

that every Star Wars movie, the Evil Empire, are British people.

There's lots of times.

If you remember back when Episode one came out.

Everybody's British.

Well, if you remember back when Episode one came out, there was a little bit of an uproar

about people saying that the Trade Federation was very Asian-like.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, I'm not saying... We can dive into that on another podcast, but it was kind of

contentious I think there for a little bit.

Like where Lucasfilm was like, no, we didn't build them off this, but they just kind of

sound like that and they kind of-

And this was in the pre-Twitter days.

Can you imagine now?

Yeah, totally.

Yeah, dude.

Can you imagine it now?

It would be uproar.

So, here you go that, I mean, I think this has got to be intentional because everyone

in the Empire sounds British, right?

They have very... The other people are British, but they're not speaking with a British accent.

The Rebels are usually like Southern.

I'm like, okay, this cannot be a coincidence that all your Rebels sound like good old boys

and you're-

I don't think that they sound like good old boys.

I think that they sound... There's definitely a non-British American-esque sound to them.

Except for Ray Laverole.

That's just awesome.

I knew that was coming.

That's just the man.

Yeah, but that's the only one that I really get a Southern accent from though.

Not a big rebel yell coming out of Qui-Gon Jinn.

Yeah, yeah.

No, no, not the Jedi.

I'm talking about the rebel-

But like Luke and Leia sound very American.

I agree with that.

Yeah, that's true.

It's a very American sound.

I like the stay on target.

Those guys reminded me in Porkins.

Yeah, I think it just comes down to the actors and actresses that were originally chose to

play in the original trilogy.

I think it just comes down to those guys.

But I agree with you though.

The British part of it, I agree with that.

That's just hilarious.

Well, okay, you're going to make me talk about this, right?

Did you watch the miniseries Chernobyl?

Yes.

I have not.

Okay.

They made a conscious choice there, right?

They did not make them sound Russian because they thought-

I had-

That would be way too distracting.

Yes, I agree.

So they made them sound English, consciously.

They had to sound foreign, but not distractingly so.

Right.

Interesting.

I did not know that.

Yeah, I have watched the series, but that's an interesting take on that because I always

assumed that there would be a very Russian heavy accent on that show.

An overall summary.

I felt, again, I felt like I did not necessarily enjoy this movie when I saw it in 2002.

I feel like I enjoyed it a slight, very slight bit more whenever I rewatched it this week.

It's still the low point for me.

I mean, it's still, it's the trenches of the worst three, in my opinion.

And I know you guys have some opinions about the last three, but this one was pretty bad.

Now, the good news is I liked episode three, but this one's rough.

This is a rough movie.

And I think it shows in the box office score and I think everything else.

Is this the worst for both of you guys?

Yeah, I originally I started with Phantom Menace.

But I would say I like Phantom Menace some better than this.

So yeah, yeah.

There you go.

John, you do not like Phantom Menace more than this one.

You're right.

I do not like Phantom Menace.

I must be weak minded.

You're going to have to watch Attack of the Clones tonight.

Again.

John, is this the worst movie for you out of all of them?

No, I think for me, again, jumping ahead.

Again, it's kind of a straight ramp.

It's one, two, three.

Okay.

Okay.

So you thought Phantom Menace was worse?

Yeah.

Yeah, this one, I can't explain it because it was a treat to watch it for this podcast.

It really was.

I had to sit down and watch the movie.

Not the poetry.

That didn't bother me so much.

It really didn't.

I mean, it does bother me on one level, but I just kind of gloss over it.

But I guess the moments of the film, the scenes on Kamino and the droid clone war there towards

the end, which actually doesn't really hold up all that well at the time.

I didn't think you'd have it.

I was like, hey, good effects.

Now it's kind of like, yeah.

Yeah, but that's age.

That's age.

I mean, that's not this film's problem when they produced it.

And we didn't touch on this, but really quickly, this was my favorite.

sort of transition period where they could kinda do the effects kinda well, but they

didn't hold up. It was not yet Uncanny Valley, but it was getting to that point and you're

just kinda like, okay. You can do things now that I think, and I'd love to be proven wrong,

but I think if you look back ten years from now, you look at stuff around this era, and

it'd be fine. Oh, okay. Interesting. Yeah, I don't think we've reached a peak by any

means, but I think that there's always gonna be looking back. It's gonna be pretty bad.

Yeah, and we didn't touch on the visuals for this film. Again, I think we all agree, like

seismic charges, that kind of like space, and then even the city of Coruscant where

they're going through the car ride was pretty good. I agree with you that for some reason

that last battle did stick out a little bit in my mind, as in like didn't hold up as well

as the other scenes in the movie, but you know, not bad. So I wanna say, number one,

thanks for joining us. Thanks, John. Thank you. Thanks, William. Thank you. And the next

podcast we're gonna be doing is podcast number 14. We're gonna be reviewing the Age of Republic

Anakin Skywalker one-off comic. It kinda comes a good bit after this. Hope you'll join us

for that, and stay safe. This is the 11 Parsecs Podcast, episode 13. If you enjoyed this podcast,

please take a moment to subscribe and leave us a good review. And be sure to check us

out at 11parsecs.com and Discord. I'm Jonathan Smith with Eric Thompson and that special

little guy, William Buchanan. Thank you for joining us.