Episode 16: (22 BBY) Clone Wars S2E16 'Cat & Mouse' & S1E16 'The Hidden Enemy'

Oh, you have shorthand. Yeah, totally. Yeah, it's forbidden.

Yeah, like when a dinner's really good, you know, the kids are always like,

you really put your middles into this one, dad.

I'm like, you know what, guys? Thank you.

Okay, so making a mental note, Anakin plays chicken with a spider.

The Jedi say, high ground, sh'my ground.

And some slaves have a discussion about being slaves to the good guys.

Today, we discuss Clone Wars episodes 216 and 116 on this edition of the 11 Parsecs podcast.

Hello and welcome to podcast number 16 of the 11 Parsecs podcast.

My name is Eric. Here's my good buddy, Jon.

Hello. And today we are encountering our first two episodes of The Clone Wars.

So if you haven't listened to this podcast before, let me give you a quick background of what this podcast is.

Basically, we're trying to go through all of the Star Wars New Canon universe in chronological order.

So when we say chronological order, we mean BBY, Before The Battle of Yavin,

which is usually looked at as kind of this center point, this Zero.

Think of it as in the Gregorian calendars, like Christ.

So you have everything BC or BBY Before The Battle of Yavin.

And then you have everything ABY, which is After The Battle of Yavin.

Currently, we are on the 16th episode of our podcast.

And we are all the way up to, drumroll please, 22 BBY, which really isn't that impressive.

So when we started this podcast, podcast one, the first thing we did was we read a book by,

I think it was Claudia Gray called Master and Apprentice.

That was done at 40 BBY.

So over the last 15 podcasts, we've slowly moved up to the year 22 BBY.

Now some of you who know Star Wars may know that 22 BBY was also the exact same year

that The Clone Wars, or Attack of the Clones, I should say, began and Attack of the Clones the movie came out.

So if you've been following us on the podcast, we watched Episode one, The Phantom Menace, on podcast, I think number four.

We read Doku Jedi Lost, or sorry, we listened to Doku Jedi Lost, the audio drama,

which happened around 25 BBY.

We've read Queen's Shadow, which was a book that came out at 27, 28 BBY.

And finally, we've read comics, we have listened to audio dramas, we have watched movies.

We are finally at the point where we are beginning TV shows.

So in 22 BBY, right after the Star Wars Attack of the Clones,

there's an order to the TV shows that we are going to be watching them.

This order is based on the BBY, or the time that the actual episode happened in the Star Wars universe,

not necessarily the order in which they came out.

So today, we're going to be reviewing two episodes that happened in 22 BBY,

The Clone Wars Episode Season 2, Episode 16, Cat and Mouse.

And then followed by that, we're going to also be reviewing The Clone Wars Season 1, Episode 16, The Hidden Enemy.

So again, if you're used to watching The Clone Wars from when they came out,

we're jumping around a little bit just to keep within our chronological order of BBY.

But I'm kind of excited about this because it's our first TV shows.

I mean, this is a really cool medium that we haven't yet talked about.

And of course, with Disney+ Plus and everything, it's great to watch, it's easy to watch,

we don't have to really worry about anything.

But before we get started, as always, John, what are you drinking tonight?

Okay, so finally to the part of the podcast I enjoy, this is New Belgium, I haven't had this one.

New Belgium Captain Dynamite IPA.

That is a very, very good beer.

Is it a very good beer?

Yes, that's the red label?

No, no, no, it's like blue and green.

Oh, okay, maybe I'm thinking of something else.

Captain Dynamite!

There was one that was voodoo something that was a red label.

It was so good. I need to go back and find it.

Was that Hire a Plane?

Maybe it's Hire a Plane. Yeah, that's Hire a Plane. That's exactly what it is. Good call.

It was exactly Hire a Plane.

Tonight I'm drinking something a little odd.

And I'm eager to see, and I meant to, this is going to sound really bad,

I meant to actually bring one of these over to your house because it's such a weird flavor

that I wanted you to try it.

So this is by an Atlanta brewery called Firemaker,

which is, I didn't actually know of them until I bought the six pack.

I've never heard of Firemaker?

Yeah, it's Firemaker Brewing.

They're in downtown Atlanta on Chattahoochee Avenue.

So probably a newer brewery just because you and I keep up with Atlanta breweries fairly well.

And this one was a brand new thing.

But I bought this knowing that it probably was not going to taste good.

But actually, well, just listen, just listen, though.

I actually had one and I like really liked it.

I really was dumbfounded why I liked it.

Let me tell you the name of the brew.

The Chattahoochee Tea Southern IPA.

Oh, oh, oh, oh.

What do you think this tastes like?

It's like iced tea, beer.

We created the Southeastern IPA, a nod to the southern delicacy that is sweet tea.

Chattahoochee Tea is a beer.

Steeped with a custom tea blend and lactose that makes it sweet like the south.

Brewed with hints of honey and malt and double dry hopped with lemon drop and Moteika?

Our unique IPA is a true southern treat.

Ok, I bought this on a whim.

Just because I was like, this would be really good to just have on a podcast, fresh out.

Try it and then just be like, ok this is a tea based IPA, this is not good.

Jon this is a really good beer.

It's weird. It's a weirdly good beer.

I never imagined that I would want something tasting like a southern iced tea IPA, but it's actually pretty good.

And like I said, it's so good that I did not save you one and I've already drank the first five.

Oh my god.

So I was going to tell you that I literally...

That's an endorsement right there.

So what I do, if I have a beer that I want you to taste, I put it at the very back of the freezer and I know not to get to it and I'll give it to you next time I see you or whatever.

But yeah, I drink all five. This is the sixth one.

I'm going to act like I've never drank this beer before whenever we pop the tops in a minute, but it's actually really, really good.

It's a very weird flavor and I don't usually go for weird flavored IPAs, but hey, pretty good.

So you're ready to buy?

You're making me want to go find this beer.

No, I'll find it for you because I'm going to buy another six pack.

It's that good.

Oh, very good.

It's that good. Yeah, it's that good.

Alright, you ready to pop?

Cash that check, Eric. Cash that check.

There's no check involved, but hey, if they want to send us some more Firemaker, we're all good with it.

Alright, you ready?

Yes, let's open.

Three, two, one.

That is one thing about this beer though is it does get pretty foamy.

I always forget that.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

Oh, I'm a caveman tonight. I did not get a glass.

I'm drinking straight from...

I don't see how you can drink beer that way.

I'm drinking straight from the can. My tea. My tea beer from the can.

That's Southern for you.

It is. That's the way it is.

I'm actually going to get a little lemon wedge and pop it in there.

Okay, anyways. Alright.

So these are our first TV shows.

So as I like to do whenever we first start to talk about this stuff,

I always like to give you the chance to give a numerical representation of how you felt about these particular episodes

compared to the rest of the books, the rest of the movies, the rest of the stuff that we've read.

I'm actually going to cut you off and go first and just say I'm not going to give a score yet

because I want to give a score at the end of this, but I was actually really, really impressed with these episodes.

I'd watched a little bit of Clone Wars before in order of when it came out. I think I started with season one.

I watched the movies and stuff. I really enjoyed these two. What did you think?

So these episodes, rating these episodes is going to benefit from being the first ones.

And so it's something new and it's exciting and it's fun.

I have not watched Clone Wars. This is my first foray into it.

So it definitely benefits from that.

The first Episode I thought was pretty good. I have some issues with the tactics, with the choices made by the characters.

The second Episode I thought was better.

And it touched on a primary topic that's always been of interest to me.

Interesting. I'm interested to see what this is.

Okay, so let's start off with Episode one, the first episode.

I hate saying Episode one. Again, just to make sure everybody's on the same page with us.

Episode 216.

Yeah, this is the first episode that we've watched in chronological order.

We have jumped ahead to season two, episode 16, called Cat and Mouse.

It was written by Brian Larson and Drew Greenberg and I think originally aired in 2010.

So we're going back a pretty good ways. We're going to 11 years old here.

So both of these episodes revolved around a planet called Christophsis. I think that's what it was called. Christophsis.

It was a very interesting planet. I'd never heard anything about it before.

And we haven't heard anything about it in the stuff that we've read thus far that I can remember.

Wait, wait, wait. You're supposed to be the Star Wars knowledge guy. You do not know this planet?

I do not. I do not know Christophsis. How do you know? Wait, wait, wait. How do you know Christophsis?

You're not a star.

I don't, but these first two episodes deal with it.

And I think they outright say the super important planet of Christophsis.

So I thought, well, this must mean something to somebody like Eric.

Nope. Doesn't mean anything. Nope. Doesn't mean anything to me and my sweet tea.

I mean, there's just not that I know. I've never heard of this planet.

And honestly, like whenever I was watching the episodes, I was kind of amazed that it looks like this kind of like Emerald City Wizard of Oz type place.

Like, I don't know. Everything, everything was this green blue, which is fine.

I'm down with the planets having their own colors and that kind of thing.

But what I didn't realize was that it was like sporadic buildings.

And I don't know if that was because since this came out in 2010, not knocking on Clone Wars thus far, because I've really enjoyed the graphics and everything.

But some of the the shots in the second episode just show these big, huge buildings that just kind of pop up on the landscape.

Did you notice that? I actually didn't notice that now. Now I'm intrigued.

Yeah, it's just kind of a weird like it's kind of a weird like Christophsis.

Do you think there was a limitation of the rendering? I don't know. I don't know. It was very weird.

It just seemed like a weird thing that like I didn't notice that at all.

OK, yeah, it just seemed like a big flat plane of a city.

And then like every like I don't know, I'm just guessing a number.

I don't know. I didn't do the math on it.

But every five miles you have this one big set of buildings that pop up and they look like.

And then you go another five miles and you got another one.

It just looked weird to me.

I don't, it wasn't bad.

It just was weird.

I don't know.

Hey, the people of Christophsis can do their own land management.

I am not in charge of that.

Yeah.

They're, you know, they're playing their own zone.

Yeah.

There's no boards can do whatever they want.

I'm fine with it, but I'm just saying it was very odd to look at on the thing.

And I didn't know if it was a technical limitation of the rendering of the

cartoon itself or if it was supposed to be planned like that.

I don't know.

Very different.

Well, I mean, 11 years ago, they were basically drawing things with crayons.

So, yeah, I mean, you know, you're probably talking Plato at some points

and then they just kind of like, you know, 2010 was fairly good graphics.

Dark ages.

Yeah.

So let's talk, let's talk about the first episode.

Cat and Mouse.

Anakin's, Anakin's going down to bail out, bail out, bail out.

Look at that.

I didn't even mean to do that.

I honestly did not mean to do that.

No, I really didn't.

I didn't, I haven't written in my notes, but I didn't, I didn't.

Anyways, Anakin's going to bail out, bail from Christophsis because

Christophsis is under attack.

It's under attack by the Separatists trade fed or Trade Federation.

At this point, there's still the Separatist federation, but the

Separatist army, maybe that's the best way to say it, but he's been kind of

pinned down on Christophsis and there is a, there is a blockade going on.

There's a blockade with some really weird, hairy toothed guy that I don't,

Admiral Trench, I don't know.

What did you think about him?

What'd you, what'd you just call him?

Spider guy.

I mean, I just called him spider guy.

I know.

So, so I, so at first I was like, this is like, he's got four arms.

This is like one of the guys from like Dexter Jetster from the, you know, the,

the second movie where, you know, he goes to visit, Obi-Wan goes to visit him.

To learn about the Kaminoans.

That's what it felt like at first.

And there was always this, well, no, there's this little bit of a.

He's a spider.

He's meant to be this menacing tarantula, like spider.

Oh, okay.

Okay, fine.

There was a little bit of Watto too.

And there are the like, the kind of sound that he would make.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There's that.

And he sounds exactly like, he sounds like, yeah.

Who's Watto again?

Watto.

Oh, Watto, the, the, the, the, sorry.

No, no, no, no.

Annie, get to your ship, Annie.

You know, that kind of thing.

Right.

Who's, who's the, who's the Gungan leader?

Oh, the Gungan leader.

Oh, yeah.

Cause I had to look that up.

He sounds exactly like, and I thought that must be the same voice actor.

Yeah.

Now that you say that, I was thinking that I was talking about, I was talking

about Watto doing that sound, but you're right.

It was Boss Nash that was like.

Kind of guy.

Wooz and wooz.

Yeah.

It, it, he really does have that.

Yeah, you're right.

That deep resonant thing.

And I'm supposed to be the Star Wars guy.

Please, John, you're showing me up here, man.

Boss Nash.

Pulling that out.

That's great.

All right.

Anyways.

Well, I didn't know the name.

Yeah, you didn't, but you knew it.

Yeah.

And you knew that I would know what you started talking about.

All right.

I really thought it was the same voice actor.

I really, really did.

So, so one thing that I want to talk about is, and I'm trying to remember if we've

seen something with this, and I think it's actually episode three, but Grievous's

ship, it looks very similar to this one.

And I don't know if you know that yet, because I don't know if you remember

episode three that well.

I don't.

Yeah.

So this, this ship seemed very similar to, oh, sorry.

When I say the ship, Admiral Trench has his own massive hulking ship in this

episode that ends up getting blown apart by a pretty sneaky Anakin and the ship,

just the, maybe it's the bridge that reminds me of Grievous some, at some

point in one of the movies, I'm not sure which, but the ship is just this big

windowed front part.

And it's this massive, massive ship, especially compared to the, I guess the

destroyers that the, the Rebel Alliance brings along or the clones bring along.

Yeah, and basically this is also the first time that I've heard of any type of

cloaking ability in a Star Wars movie.

Have you, you know,

Oh, that was of course.

Yeah.

Number one note that I made was wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Stealth tech would kind of be a radical change to the Star Wars universe.

Would it not?

Yeah.

And so immediately, yeah, they talk about immediately.

It has to be a prototype.

It has to like, something has to go wrong with it and no one else ever

tries to do it again.

So it's, it's a bit of a MacGuffin for this episode.

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

It's not really a MacGuffin though, because they talk about how Trench is

faced other, other cloaking devised ships before.

Why do they say that?

Like they bring it back up.

Like, is it, this, this is as if this has been a part of the, the universe for a

while, which dumbfounds me because.

Okay.

Now I got to watch it for the third time.

Cause I don't remember hearing that.

Yeah.

They talk about, so whenever, whenever Trench, whenever they're talking

about Trench himself, they said, Oh, I thought he was dead or something like that.

Yeah.

And, and, but then Trench comes back and he's like, no, I'm alive.

And he's like, I've faced these types of ships before.

And Anakin's like, Oh wait, they faced, you know, clickable ships before.

And then they go back and look through the, I guess, logs or whatever they have.

And they're like, yeah, he has faced this.

And he's faced this by what we think is Anakin deduces that he's faced and beat

these ships before based on the magnetic trails, I think is what they say on the

show, the magnetic.

Did I skip half the episode or something?

I don't remember any of this conversation.

Yeah.

And then they go back, the general guy that's on Anakin ship with him.

I forget the general's name.

He goes back and looks this stuff up and he's like, Oh yeah, we've

think that he's probably beat these cloaked ships before by tracing their,

their magnetic Renaissance or resonance.

I, it was something.

Do it magnetic signatures.

Yeah.

Magnetic signatures.

Yeah.

And then that, of course that gives, that gives Anakin the idea that, Oh, here's

what the

It was a good episode.

I thought it was pretty good.

It was good.

I mean, of course, okay.

Starting out first things first.

The very first thing we see is that yet again, Anakin is disobeying orders

because that's what he does.

Of course, apparently that's all he does.

Why even bother giving him an order in the first place?

Yeah.

It'd be a great episode if he was just like, yes, sir.

And then he actually did what he was supposed to do and all the

clones don't question him.

Yeah.

That would be hilarious.

If, if, if Obi-Wan expected him to break the orders and go save the day

and Anakin's like, what, what are you talking about?

Wait, John, wait.

Is Obi-Wan that good of a teacher already?

Huh?

All right.

Just saying, just saying he knows at this point, he knows at this point

that Anakin is going to jump off the car and fly through the air and land

on whatever car he needs to, to find the shapeshifting assassin.

So you're saying he's got to give the order that he doesn't want

followed in order to motivate Anakin to break the order and do the thing

that he wants done, actually.

I think that Obi-Wan is that smart at this point, whether he's doing

that here, I don't know, but yeah.

Okay.

I don't know about all that.

So when, when they, when they're in the stealth ship, I mean, do they, do

they have to fly right, right next to Mr.

Bad guy ship?

Yeah.

You have to, you literally have to rub up against the ship to make sure

that your magnetic signatures kind of mess around with each other a little bit.

Oh, okay.

And so another question is the spider guy says that, or that he gets a report

that, that he's basically his blockade has, has succeeded.

He he's won.

Oh, he's half a day away from winning.

He's in for the fight.

Yeah, but, but they set him up as this brilliant tactician and he

does the stupidest possible thing.

Yeah.

He does.

I'm about to win if I just do nothing.

So I might as well do something and lose.

Yeah.

I think there's a little bit of hubris there.

I mean, there's, there's, I know, I know, I knew you're going to say that.

Yes, there's hubris.

Yes, yes, yes.

But it kind of conflicts with what, how they set him up.

You know, otherwise.

That's just bothers me.

Well, they also make the, there's also the quote in the show that where

they talk about how, yes, sometimes captains may not actually go down

with their ship, which already sets them apart in my opinion, because

you, you got that, you got that coming from the guy that's on Anakin ship.

That was of course the leader of the Star Destroyer who's

hitching a ride with Anakin.

And he says it was such disbelief that you really feel like.

There's nothing that this guy would not go down with the ship with, but this

guy, of course, you know, we thought we blew him up, but he must've escaped.

Which, I mean, there's a rich tradition of that as doors, right?

The, the big bad getting away.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Vader, everybody.

Yeah.

No, yeah.

Totally agree with that.

But I'm just saying that, that, that you can, you can see from the clone generals,

you can hear it in his voice, honestly, honestly, with the voice acting.

It was really good where he's like, you could, you could tell that there

was such disdain for this guy because he left his ship, which I thought was

a pretty, pretty good kind of signifier of where this guy's mindset is.

Sure.

I guess.

Sure.

Makes sense.

Okay.

So, so did you notice them call out spark the brand new trooper that

the jumped on the ship?

I noticed that.

Does that mean something?

I don't know.

And I'm filing that away because usually those call outs definitely mean something.

So that's something I fought away and I was just like, I'm gonna write this

down in my notes and make sure that I remember this.

Cause are we going to see spark later on?

We didn't see him in the next episode, but that is maybe we won't see him.

But they definitely are.

They definitely give him that old congratulations kid, like toward the end

of the episode.

So I figured he's going to show up at some point, but who does also another

thing I wrote down in my notes, Bill Organa literally says you are our only

hope in a transmission.

Did you notice that?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I'm like, okay, we got a little bit of a connection.

I like this.

This is good.

This is good.

I enjoy this.

And then also too, in my notes, I put down that this felt very like hunt for

red October, like very submarine ish.

Very submarine.

It was a humber October, but submarine drama ask.

And I liked that.

I thought it was good.

I thought that was kind of a good, like kind of like theme to the episode and

like pretty good.

It was pretty good episode.

I think that you like the second episode.

You said a lot more than you like the first.

I liked the first one.

I think I liked them both about 50, 50, honestly.

I like, I like the first episode.

Okay.

I did appreciate that the stealth aspect allowed them to play off of the

submarine.

I mean, they have, they have the, the, the sonar pings going during, during those

aspects to really drive home, you know, we're not going to submarine, which is

fine.

I have no problem with that.

Actually, it's a good atmospheric.

Yeah.

There's also the red, the red light that would kind of stay on while they were

cloaked.

Then I noticed that like, you definitely give you the submarine feeling.

I didn't notice that, but that's a nice time.

Yeah.

Because if you look back at all the different, so they would pan the shots of

all the different clone troopers working and everyone was paid and like this red

light.

And I was like, that's pretty good.

I did.

I, okay.

I, I did notice that I didn't click though.

Okay.

So that's, that's good.

My, my question, another question I had rather was the bombers passed them at one

point.

There's they're cloaked.

Super close.

Super close.

S super close.

So the bombers are going down there because Spider-Man wants to provoke an

attack.

So he's going to send the bombers down there to attack the base and make them

cry for help.

The bombers get down there almost like instantly.

Okay.

to get supplies down there and he never gets remotely close to the planet. Why is he going so slowly?

That's a good question. I never thought about that.

He could be ferrying supplies up and back and using the stealth that way.

Yeah, when they pass over the ship too, when the ship's cloaked and the bombers pass by,

they're not going that much faster than the ship itself, or at least from the perspective of the actual drawings.

That's interesting. I never thought of that. That's actually a pretty good...

But then the next shot, they're attacking the ground.

Yeah, they're literally right 200 feet above the ship.

Where the hell is the stealth of the ship? Get down here.

That's interesting.

All they had to say was something like, well, we can't go down there now because there's no place to land.

All they had to do was put in one line to explain why they never got close to the planet.

And it just bothers me when there's a gap like that.

So instead, they take this stealth technology, this huge advantage for ferrying supplies like he was told to do,

and he just basically tosses it away to decloak 50,000 miles away from the capital ship and fire some missiles,

which gives the spider guy plenty of time to bring up the shields and render the missiles.

Yeah, I think that may be the give with Anakin, whereas you're kind of like,

okay, he's this experienced guy, he kind of knows what all to do.

I think that may be the writer showing you, hey, he's not always right.

There's going to be times that you're like, he's a terrible tactician. He's terrible.

We've talked about this before, especially in the last episode where we talked about the ancient resistance.

Yeah, when they ate cornbread.

Yes, when they ate cornbread.

And I was like, I don't know, is he so good that he looks bad?

He's so good he can get away with making really bad decisions.

Yeah, and you can definitely tell in this episode where the crew is worried about it,

because you can definitely tell the commander that's tagging along with him.

The clones, of course, they're all going to support him no matter what.

But you can definitely tell the commander that was with him was kind of like, oh, what are we doing?

Are you going to unclog and shoot or are we not going to unclog and shoot?

You've got to make a decision.

He was really kind of pushing him as in, I'm somewhat seasoned at this.

You're not. What are we doing here? You know what I mean?

Yeah, but in the end, you have to just assume that Anakin just gets lucky.

He gets completely lucky that, yes, he provoked Spider-Dude into dropping his shields and launching missiles,

but Anakin, there's no way he could possibly know that he could A, outrun the missiles enough

to B, get back to the capital ship in time before the shields could come back.

I think we're going to see a prevailing theme in these shows,

and I'm not saying this based on experience of watching them, that Anakin just does, quote unquote, get lucky.

It's a very weirdly midichlorian force-inducing thing that he just literally gets lucky a lot of times.

We do not say the M word around here.

Why? I can say midichlorians.

I threw up in my mouth.

In my house, I say middows because that's what we do, M-I-D-O.

Oh, you have shorthand.

Yeah, totally.

It's forbidden.

Yeah, like when a dinner's really good, the kids are always like, man, you really put your middows into this one, Dad.

I'm like, you know what, guys? Thank you. It was delicious.

Okay, so making a mental note, never have dinner at the Thompson Household again.

How much salt and pepper and midichlorians did you put in this?

I'm starting to wonder if middows are slang for something else that I don't want to know about.

No, no, no. Middows are just The Force, man. That's how we operate.

Anyways, so I had a point. You really threw me off of that whole M thing.

It was something about, so I have a problem with him just getting lucky like that.

I do understand the type of show, the genre we're discussing here. I get it. That's going to happen.

The hero saves the day. I don't know why it bothers me. Maybe because it's, oh, I know why it bothers me.

This is what I was going to say earlier.

So when you just get lucky over and over and over again, you're reducing the stakes.

It's not really concerned about you anymore.

Let's start talking about the next episode that we're going to review.

Clone Wars.

Yes, where they just do things without consequences.

I agree. And there's a bunch of them that I actually noted in my notes too about this.

So now we're going to move on to Same22BBY.

This is Clone Wars Season 1, Episode 16, The Hidden Enemy.

I think it was also written by Drew Greenberg, the one that we just reviewed also.

Again, we're on Christophsis. There's a little bit of weirdness at the beginning of this.

I don't want to say this. I don't want to say it's a weirdness.

There's a little bit emotional impact that I don't know if it's supposed to be there or not.

At the beginning of this episode, basically Obi-Wan and Anakin are in separate towers, this kind of paired tower structure.

The clones that they are fighting, I'm sorry, the bots that they are fighting, droids that they are fighting, are coming in down the street.

They both are part of some master plan here that's going to have an attack on the droids.

Obi-Wan Kenobi was a Jedi.

And it's a very weird scene to me because it just shows how disposable they are to the Jedi. Did you catch that?

Yeah, I think that's a lot of this episode.

It is. And it leads into other parts of this episode. I mean, you know, we're like I said, we're a spoiler filled podcast.

Basically, the class warfare type situation raises its head because those droids knew to go up there because somebody was leaking secrets.

And it ends up being one of the clones. And the reasoning for him was specifically that we're dispensable to you guys.

You know, we don't matter to you. I mean, you know, you learn our names and then you don't really care about us past that.

And he was like, I want to make a name for myself. I want to get off this planet. I want to get out of this army.

And definitely an interesting kind of subplot.

And not just that, but I want to lead the way for my brothers. You know, we should be free.

Yeah.

And that is something I have thought about. That's one of the reasons I was really curious about The Clone Wars just in general,

but the TV show in particular is because that's a question that we've discussed in the past.

These are slaves. These are grown, tailor made slaves.

Yeah.

Which, as we know, in the Star Wars universe, slavery is a thing. Some people don't like it, but it's a thing. It happens a lot.

Well, this is slavery on an industrial scale.

They're products. And that's the really weird part about this whole Clone Wars in my opinion,

is that the clones themselves understand, I guess, that they are a product and that they have to fulfill a duty,

which is a really weird thing to think about with a life form.

Because if you go back to the slaves and stuff that you had with Anakin and stuff,

you've got this dynamic that we all know slavery shouldn't happen, but it's a systematic thing that is happening.

And we're trying to fight it, but we also have to kind of act within the system.

This is a completely different form of slavery. I'm buying you off the... Don't get me wrong, it sounds very similar to...

No, not just buying. I'm crafting you.

Yeah, yeah. Like from the beginning.

And I think that that's a very neat dynamic for Anakin specifically to see as he does this.

But again, I don't know if it's his age, I don't know if it's where he's at in this Jedi Path or what have you,

but he doesn't care about these guys at all.

No, he doesn't identify.

But it's amazing.

That's a totally different... I'm sorry, go ahead.

No, no, no, you're right. It's totally different.

Like of all the people here that should be worried about it, why is he not?

Because of the conceit that we see in Episode two... Wait, what is Episode two?

Attack of the Clones.

Yes, the conceit that they mention is that these slaves, these clones, have been bred and crafted to want to serve.

This is their purpose. They are fulfilling their purpose by being in a clone army.

So how...

So that's how the author is excusing this, okay?

I don't know if the author is excusing it.

That's why I like this episode.

I think it's setting it up for a...

You're not meant to care about the clone troopers, no.

Wait, this is the second episode that we've watched.

I'm talking about in Episode two of the movie.

Okay, understood, I got you.

Where you discover the clones and they become a thing.

Yes.

You're not meant to care for them in any way whatsoever.

Agreed.

In fact, you're meant to be happy they're on your side.

Yeah, that's a good call.

Okay, so you're part now of the problem.

That's why I like this episode, because what if one of the clones, for whatever reason, maybe something went wrong, maybe it didn't quite take,

maybe he experienced a little something that started to make him question everything.

And that's why, really, Slick is the guy's name, kind of sympathize with him.

No one else does.

No, none of the characters on screen.

So I have a question to specifically ask you.

Yes.

What is the difference in Slick and Finn from episode seven?

Because I know you are not a fan of the last three.

So that's what I'm asking, what is the difference in somebody realizing that they don't need to be part of this and trying to get out?

I'm really tempted to give you a flippant answer, because I hold Finn in such disdain.

It was a character that they poorly developed, did nothing with, amounted to nothing.

But besides all that, though, his character backstory comes from the fact that he's a kid.

He is trying to get out.

Do you think that they modeled him after Slick?

No. Finn is not a clone.

I'm not saying that, but he's been bred to understand that he needs to fulfill this certain thing inside the army.

Yeah, and I know we're jumping ahead here, but...

And he's like, no, I'm not going to do that.

Is that not in the later trilogy, is it not said or phrased as they were essentially brainwashed?

It's not genetic alteration the way we're talking about with these clones.

It's brainwashing.

They basically were broken into being stormtroopers.

And that's a totally different topic.

And again, I think that they set things up in that and then did nothing with it.

So I don't have much of an opinion.

We'll get to that whenever we get to this movie.

I was just trying to say the parallels are still kind of there.

This is far more interesting.

This is far more interesting because this is a being who had his genetic code tailor made to be the perfect soldier.

What happened? What did he see?

What changed in him to make him want to be free?

An expression we have not seen anywhere else in any of the clones.

I will say that whenever I was watching this, I did not expect this level of philosophy to come into the second episode.

I was digging it.

I'm not saying I didn't like it. I love it.

It's a great question.

You just want the clones to fall in line.

You just want the clones to be loyal clone troopers and do a damn job.

I just want the clones to fall off the line.

I don't want them to be in the line.

I want them to fall off the line like the other guys did whenever they were crossing the two buildings.

I think the dynamic between Anakin not understanding or respecting the fact that they are serving under him as quote unquote slaves.

There is no reason for him to recognize any commonality with them at all.

You don't think so?

No, absolutely not.

Wow, interesting.

Because he looks at them as products.

Something he has bought.

Or whoever has bought.

Yeah, they were tailor made for this.

Whoever bought them ended up delivering them to him.

They are not me. I am a Jedi.

He looks at them as expendable people.

Tools.

Interesting.

That's what I get. It's very clear to me.

No, I'm not disagreeing with you based off the second episode. I'm not at all.

I agree with you.

For this episode, I'm eager to see if that changes or does not change.

Or is that something that helps move him to the other side?

To where he is like, what are we doing?

We are just letting people die left and right.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that they are clones, but they are still dying.

Let's wait. I'm completely speculating. I'm not basing this off anything that I know.

Based on where we know his character is going, come on.

He is never going to have that moment of, wait a minute, these are real people.

That's never going to happen.

Yeah, I don't know.

No.

Notice that we are focusing on the B story here because it's far more interesting than the generic A story.

Which is Anakin and Obi-Wan saying, hey, you know what?

We should go check out the bad guy headquarters.

Why not? Let's just go over there.

There's no danger. They just waltz in.

It's a trap.

They have that smug, arrogant, sorry for them.

They think they are going to trap us.

The only highlight of that was it was a chance to see Yzma again because she's got those wrong levers that she's got to pull.

I'm kidding.

You know this is right off.

We need to go back and look and see if it's the same voice work.

I don't know if it is.

It is. I looked it up.

You did look.

From Doku Jedi Lost.

Great, great pull in.

I'm really excited for you that you actually are still thinking of Yzma.

For those that didn't listen, whenever we reviewed the Doku Jedi Lost audio drama,

Asajj was a brand new character that Jon had never encountered before.

One of my favorite characters in the Star Wars universe because it's such a gritty character.

You said that the person sounded like Eartha Kitt and that she sounded like Yzma from Emperors New Groove.

Is that right?

Yep.

Oh yeah.

It's very fitting.

I'm amazed that it's the same person in the voice work.

I did not know that actually.

I'm impressed that you looked it up.

That's what I was going to ask.

In my notes, literally I have Asajj and then I have three exclamation points right after it.

I did not expect her so early in the series.

Or so early in the BBY version of the story in 22 BBY.

I thought she'd come along a little bit later.

But I'm glad that you recognized her immediately and her Eartha Kitt like voice.

Well, yes.

Only because of Doku Jedi Lost.

Without that, I would have thought, okay, well there's a bad person.

You can tell there are tropes for bad guys.

She's hitting them all.

I don't know anything about her.

I suspect that if you watched this in the actual broadcast order, you've seen her before at this point.

I don't know.

This is 116.

It's a great question.

I don't know.

First season, episode 16.

We're watching these in chronological order, so I don't know if you've seen her before.

I would assume you have.

Broadcast order. I'm betting she's in earlier season one.

She'd almost have to be, because there was no introduction whatsoever to her.

Otherwise, yeah, you have no idea who this person is. Not at all.

It's a bad guy with dual lightsabers because, you know, everybody gets dual lightsabers now, because it's no longer special.

And this is what's really puzzling to me. So right when they meet her, she runs up this pretty steep set of steps.

Okay? She has the high ground. It's over.

Well, there's two of them there, Jon. I mean, it's a little different.

Right. She doesn't win. So then she goes up more steps. Even higher ground.

And she's still not over.

I don't understand.

Yeah, there was no introduction whatsoever to her.

So I completely agree with you that there's no...

She's got to be seen before sometime in the series in the first 15 episodes of season one.

For it to make sense, yes.

Yeah, agreed.

So I'm still kind of confused, though, as to her purpose on this planet.

Like, did someone...

Not a clue.

The episode never talks about it, but did Doku or did somebody send her down to kind of keep the Jedi busy until...

What was the guy that... Wash? What was his name?

Wash? The guy who floats like a leaf in the Wind?

No, no, no. What is the guy that actually betrays everybody? The clone. What was his name?

Oh, Slick.

Oh, Slick. Yeah. So that's what she... It seems like she's there to buy the time so that Slick can then destroy all the machinery and everything that the Reholic has...

Or sorry, that the clones have done.

That's correct.

Yeah, so she didn't really seem like a very big baddie in this episode, if that makes sense.

Like, she's there mostly to kind of detain the gruff Jedi that know what they're doing when they ride right into the trap.

You know, like, it's more like a... I'm going back to my word hubris.

It's more of a play on the Jedi's hubris this time.

She's just trying to keep them busy so that they can land all the other clones and have everybody else there.

No, there's a definite theme of people letting their arrogance get the better of them.

I know William would be nodding his head vigorously at this point, but that is clearly a theme that we're having thrust upon us over and over again.

Yeah, especially in these two episodes. I especially feel in these two episodes.

And again, there's also that whole Anakin edge of not caring about stuff either.

Like, it's such a... Yeah.

I mean, why do they have to? They get out everything.

Yeah, the Jedi are grading on you at this point. In my opinion, they are.

Maybe it's because of the chronological order in which we're watching it.

It's not that... Well, okay, grading in some sense, yeah, because you're a terrible tactician.

You make horrible decisions and you just get away with it because, you know...

You're a Jedi.

Plot armor. So that's fine.

But your arrogance is showing. You don't care about...

I mean, when they were driving to the bad guy headquarters, they didn't care.

No, it was a fun ride. I totally agree with that.

It was a fun ride. Exactly. It was a road trip.

Hey, let's go mess up some guys in Tijuana, right?

Why would I care about that?

What guy are you messing up in Tijuana?

That damn donkey. Keep his mouth shut.

Shouldn't have took my peanut butter.

Anyways, go back.

Bad memories. Okay.

I agree with you that it is a very...

These two episodes in this order, and that's the best way to say it.

And I almost want to watch them in normal order just to see if this hubris has been building up.

But in chronological order, we definitely see that the Jedi are just full of themselves at this point.

Like, completely full of themselves.

And I totally agree with your comment about William being spot on when he talked about this.

And the great thing is, we're going to have William back for the next podcast.

He's going to be on our Clone Wars review episode.

The Clone Wars movie review episode.

But, yeah, the Jedi are just...

And we've talked about it in the last, I think, three podcasts where Yoda is just kind of being an ass too.

It's just... The Jedi are in a rough spot right now.

Like, it's just not a good feeling.

Yoda's not even in these episodes, and you drag his corpse in to flog it?

What are you doing?

Yeah, because we talked about it in the last two episodes.

Especially at the end of the comic series for... I think it was Maul and the other one.

He's just so full of himself.

I know, but he's not in these episodes.

I know, but...

Leave the old guy alone, Jesus.

No, no. He doesn't deserve it.

He doesn't deserve it because he's leading the Jedi into oblivion at this point.

Anyways. Okay.

So, overall, we've talked about the two episodes.

We've talked about both of them.

They're fun.

Give me a score of...

Oh.

Number one... Okay, here's what I want you to do.

I want you to give me a 1 through 100 score of The Clone Wars series as a whole thus far.

And then give me also...

Based on two episodes out of like...

Yeah, I'm going to ask you this every single podcast, so get ready.

And then also give me each of your two episode scores.

Alright, so Clone Wars as a series, I'm going to say it's...

85 is a safe bet.

Higher than that, I'm not really sure yet.

It was fun.

We have to see how it develops. Now the individual episodes. The first episode, overall, it was okay.

It just kind of bothered me a little bit with some of the choices made, which may or may not be a thing.

Maybe they're supposed to bother me. I'm suspecting that they really weren't supposed to bother me, and they bother me.

So that's on the lower side of the 80s.

Someone that knows you very well, there's going to be stuff that bothers you about all these.

But I'm just saying that overall, you said 85 for the series thus far.

And then what would you say about the two different episodes?

I think that's because the first episode was a low 80s and the second episode was a high 80s.

I really appreciated them touching on the topic of clone slavery and the desire for freedom and what that means.

Oh, and the whole Cat and Mouse thing about trying to find the spy. That was good. That was really good.

The other half of the episode, eh, whatever. But the part that dealt with the clones was far more interesting.

I'm going to actually agree with you. And I'm going to give Thus Far, The Clone Wars series as a whole an 85.

But I'm going to go with probably a narrower band, an 84 for episode 16, season 2, and then an 86 for season 1, episode 16.

Sorry, I'm getting a little confused.

I think that both of these were very good episodes together. I think that both of them were about equal in my opinion.

Whereas I definitely thought that the latter was a little bit better.

More than that.

We're going to converge on the same number though, 85.

Well, yeah, but if you want to get more fine grained. So to split the 116 episode into two parts, right?

Story A, Story B. Story A, eh, 85. Whatever. It's fine. A little bit of Jedi action.

Don't understand why she didn't win because she had the high ground.

But if you look at the B story, the clones trying to uncover the spy, that was like 92.

Why do you say that's the B story? I felt like that was the gist of the episode.

You thought that was the A story? Okay.

I felt like that was the introduction of like, we've got bigger things to think about here.

Like this is not condoned to this, you know, what's the G.I. Joe motto?

Like the battle versus the war. Like this is the battle, like the battle for this episode is Asajj Ventress and Obi-Wan and Anakin.

But the greater war is the fact that these clones are starting to understand the fact that they are not.

You think that's where this is going?

I don't know. And I'm being completely honest with you.

I don't agree with that at all.

In fact, I was going to say, I don't either.

The end of the episode was basically sweep it under the rug, move on. We got a job to do.

That's how I read the end of that episode.

Yeah, I don't know.

So that's why I call it the B story.

We shall see, Jon. We shall see.

It's a good, I like it. I like it. I like it a lot.

There's that underlying drama that I, knowing that every clone that we watch from here on out could be somebody that's just like, I'm not doing this anymore.

Like that adds a lot to the show, in my opinion.

He might kill you in your sleep.

Yeah, seriously. Yeah, seriously.

And you wouldn't know which one he is because they all look the same.

Some of them have shaved heads. Some of them have regular hair.

You don't know. Other than hair style, he can shave that thing off.

That was another interesting aspect of that story is, yes, they're all supposed to look the same, but inevitably they have differences.

Yeah, totally.

And then some, in fact, the fact that some of them shave their heads, some of them have, you know, like the standard haircut.

Some of them have different like aspects or scars or what have you.

It shows you that even though they're supposed to be the same creature, the individualization is inevitable.

And it does make me wonder where that goes.

This is the whole school uniform thing, though, right?

Like everybody always talks about how like, yeah, everybody always talks about how, yeah, you can make everyone in the school wear the same uniform.

If you go to a private school, like my kids go to public school, but if you go to a private school, you can have a school uniform.

But people are going to find ways to do small, teeny things that make themselves stand out.

Somebody may wear a headband, somebody a red headband under their hair, or they may wear like blue socks or something like that.

Humans are always going to find a way to distinguish themselves from other humans.

So it doesn't matter.

That's true.

That's true, but the clone troopers, they are supposed to be different.

No, they're not.

They're supposed to be tailored.

So the core of that is the fact that they are supposed to be like that whenever they were bought.

But whenever they actually got delivered, they are still human.

There's going to be differences.

There's going to be scars.

There's going to be everything.

And that's an aspect I hope we explore.

I totally do.

I have no idea if we do.

But the Geonosians clearly took great pride in the perfection of their clones.

And we've already seen two episodes into The Clone Wars that that's not true, that they're liars.

Yeah, this is the whole reason Finn got the blue and his helmet ran away.

So there's a new segment that I want to add to the end of each show.

This is going to be kind of different than what we've done thus far,

but I was thinking about it. But you and I, this is gonna sound bad.

You and I consume a lot of television. We consume a lot of pop culture.

We consume a lot of different things.

The last five minutes of this podcast I just want to dedicate to what are you

consuming? This can be books, this can be movies, TV shows, whatever you want.

Just give me something that you've watched and that you've really enjoyed in

the past two or three weeks or since the last podcast.

Well, the number one thing has to be WandaVision.

Right now that's what everybody is focused on if you're a sci-fi guy.

Or girl.

Or girl.

I knew as soon as I said sci-fi guy, I said it because it rhymed.

Yeah, you said it.

You know what I mean.

Come on.

If you're a sci-fi person.

Yes. WandaVision is really, really something.

This is not a WandaVision podcast, so I don't need to go into that.

Yeah, it's just as amazing as Mandalorian was.

I mean, it's really top notch stuff.

I totally agree. I put on the exact same level as Mandalorian.

And I think that's...

But that's not daily.

That's once a week, right?

So my daily consumption is because I discovered that an old friend of mine is

now on HBO max with like 4K rendering or whatever it is.

Babylon 5.

So I'm working my way through.

Oh, God.

I can't stop. Once I start it, I can't stop.

I'm not I'm not dismaying Babylon 5 at all.

I'm asking, I did not know that HBO went back and re-did them in 4K.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah. After, after...

Apparently, I never owned Babylon 5, to have it on DVD or anything like that.

But apparently now I follow JMS on Twitter.

And he's talking about how for forever, for years, the only copies out there were just crap.

J. Michaels, Stravinsky.

Okay, I don't know. I'm being completely honest.

I'm going to mess up his last name.

I don't know who you're referring to.

I'm a fan and I'm going to mess up his last name.

No, no, no. I'm not putting you on the spot.

Stravinsky?

You said JMS is in like a, like a, there was like a little...

If you're Babylon 5.

That's what I'm saying. I don't know who JMS is.

Okay. So you're trying to slip that in and get away with it.

Thank you for calling me out.

I will call you out at all times.

So anyway, so yes, it's on HBO max.

It's it's it still has the limitations, you know, the 4.3 aspect ratio and what have you.

But it really does look good.

It's a good looking show.

Of course, if they went back and re-did the effects, it would be phenomenal.

But they don't have the rights to do that or no one wants to pay for it.

Nonetheless, I am about halfway through it and I just can't stop.

So what is it? So and I never I don't think I've watched a single episode of Babylon 5.

What? Oh my God.

Sorry. What? How many seasons and how many episodes per season?

Babylon 5 is known as being one of the first.

It had a five year arc planned out.

Wow. Okay.

Well, okay. So it had a wrinkle.

I know this is not a Babylon 5 podcast, but

no, they face cancellation.

They they faced cancellation like over and over again.

End of season four or leading up to the end of season four,

they were pretty sure they were going to be canceled.

And so he wrapped up an entire season's worth of stories in like half a season.

And that it worked, it was fine.

But but then they were renewed on like TNT or something.

And so they had it all.

Well, no, he decided, OK, when I've got a season five, I'll just keep

going beyond the original ending of the show.

OK. And it was OK. It was OK.

Season five has its ups and downs.

It has its moments.

But the first four seasons and especially

seasons three and four are off the charts. Insane.

I may have to watch this.

I've never been.

How do I say this?

I've enjoyed Star Trek movies, but I've never really ventured beyond that

other than watching the occasional TV show.

Like, oh, my gosh.

No, no. I said I don't watch any Star Trek Next Generation.

And I probably say that I've probably seen

maybe half of all the episodes that have actually been out there.

But I've never watched them in any type of order or anything like that.

Like, like, you know.

Well, I will tell you that that's to get to the nitty gritty.

The first season of Babylon five.

Just just do it.

It's it's really hit and miss.

It was finding its legs.

But there are some critical episodes in there that you have to consume.

And then when you hit season two, you're off to the races.

Excellent.

Let me try this.

I don't need to have that commonality.

I know I don't.

We need to have that common common dialogue.

But I need to.

So basically, every year I try to watch Band of Brothers.

And I think I'm pretty sure that's a max at this point. Yeah.

Yeah. So HBO max is just like enriching itself.

The thing with me is so I would keep an HBO subscription during Game of Thrones.

Love Game of Thrones.

Last season sounds kind of similar to your Babylon four kind of thing,

where they knew they made different reasons.

But yeah, yeah. Different reasons.

You have financial reasons, probably.

But they kind of crammed everything into that.

And can you imagine a Game of Thrones

the next season having actually not had the same problems?

You know, like.

I think you actually get to create another season after all this. I mean, R.R. Martin would have been, you know, mind exploded.

Yeah, so it sounds interesting. I need to watch it. Everybody that I talk to always raves about it, you know, and they...

I've heard people describe the ending to that series as a downer.

So you kind of say that they've carried it a little bit more, but I don't know. I just haven't watched it.

Well, the ending, again, the original ending of the series at the end of season four, it's so nice. It's so wonderful.

And you got to remember, this was back in the 90s when you didn't have arc shows like that.

Now you have nothing but arc shows. Back then it was up against things like Deep Space Nine, where every episode...

Well, they developed an arc too, but originally Star Trek was a very bottle episode.

You know, we meet an alien and this happens. Okay, next episode, that never happened.

Now the whole new universe, basically the same characters, bottle episodes.

Yeah, so that's also true. You have to give... I don't know who the original creator of that show was,

but give them credit for saying, hey, you've got five seasons to do something, because that was kind of unheard of back then.

Like, it had no creator. It was JMS. Whoever you call him. Whatever you call him.

Strinson. Yeah, it's okay. It doesn't matter.

Interesting. Yeah, so that's... Yeah, I'm going to go try to watch it.

So HBO max is where, like, one of those things where I have to plan, I have to strategize about when I'm going to start the subscription

and when I'm going to end the subscription, so that I can get all the stuff that I want to watch in the most finite period of time

and not spend tons of money and just have it sitting, hitting my credit card every month.

And that's the thing. Remember, this is old school TV, so each season of Babylon 5 is like 26 episodes.

Oh, so they're that long? Okay, okay. I thought we were talking about like 12 to 13.

Alright, so let me go back to my last question, because I'm a huge, huge Lost fan, and I want to go back and re-watch it at some point.

But I know that out of like the 22, 23 episodes that you'll get a season, you'll get filler episodes.

How many... What percentage of filler episodes did you have on Babylon 5?

I actually have a lot of Babylon 5 knowledge, except for how to pronounce the guy's last name.

So in the first season, the first season was meant to be 20% arc, 80% standalone.

Second season, 40% arc, 60% standalone. Third season was 60-40, and it flipped over to 80-20.

I like that. I like that formula. That's kind of neat. That's cool.

That was his plan. His plan was season 5 to be nothing but arc. Everything got messed up, so the math doesn't work out.

But you'll see that... not right away, because you have to send a...

Yeah, you have to get it to OK.

But you'll see in season 1, you'll think, I was told this was an arc show. What is that about?

That has nothing to do with anything, because that's how it starts. It was the intro to an arc.

Because again, in that time frame, that's not how shows were.

So he kind of had to lead you in to, no, no, no, we're going to tell a multi-season story.

Yeah, I'm trying to think back. Was there anything in the 90s that had that...

Eventually, Deep Space Nine did.

Well, no, no, no. I'm talking about not even sci-fi. I'm talking about Dallas.

Stuff like you just had long-running shows that had... they had a season arc usually, but they never had a long...

I'm sounding like I know Dallas.

No grand picture.

Yeah, but no grand picture for the entire series.

It was more along the lines of, let's get one season's arc out of the way, but we're not going to link them until we get to that next season.

It's more than you even understand, because he had arcs for each character in the show, and this is not Marvel, right? MCU, where they lock these guys into 100-year contracts.

If something happened to the actor and they want it out, which did happen several times, he had escape hatches for those characters, where this could happen and they're off the show.

That's impressive.

What he did is so impressive, and I think I've rated him well.

Did he record those escape hatches?

No, no. For example, I'm not going to spoil anything here, but there's a character, let's say season two, where suddenly this thing happens and that character's gone.

It makes complete sense in the universe, but that was an escape hatch. That did not have to happen.

Got you.

That character had a different arc originally.

Gotcha. Gotcha. Which makes sense. I mean, yeah, that's impressive, the foresight, especially with being so early.

Again, The Andy Griffith Show didn't really have an Alfred Barney. It's one of those things where it's kind of like, knowing that you have a show that you get to create for, I think you said 20 episodes a season, for five seasons, you have 100 hours to devote to a story that you want to tell.

That's crazy to think about. Nowadays, it's not.

Nowadays, it's not. Well, it's different, though, because you have things like Mandalorian with 10 episodes.

So that's going to be based on, and we're going back to Disney+ here, that's going to be based on Star Power, though, because you know that those people are going to go so, and this was the problem with Game of Thrones, those people got so popular that they commanded so much money that you couldn't just go and do it.

So back then though you didn't have that variable at least at that point. No, but but likewise the the you had actors

Say hey, this is not developing. My character is not developing like I want. I want more screen time

Yeah, and I I can go star on this sitcom over here

you know, let me on my let me on my contract and

He foresaw that that was that was an imminent possibility

And

That's where I was asking you like number one the foresight of that's amazing

But number two if you had a recorded originally like right when you first got with the character a death scene or whatever

Whatever the out was yeah, that would be more impressive to me

You know, I mean like you really covered it knowing that this could happen later on that's impressive to me

Don't get me wrong

The original so impressive but I'm just saying that would be even more impressive like the first scene these people do is their out scene

if they leave

Well, I do have to say as a final thought because we haven't even talked about what you're consuming at this point

That a lot of people it seems like a lot of people really don't care for Babylon 5 they view it as derivative or I don't

Know boring or something. I've never really understood the hate because I'm a fan of the show

But yeah, you need to try it out and see what you think

Yeah, I will and that's I'm looking for the thing

So like although you're still talking like you said 5c that's a hundred episode. That's a lot

So I've wanted to get into the wire. I've never watched the wire and I only watch Breaking Bad up through season one

And I've I've always wanted to go back and rewatch those shows. I've never watched Mad Men either

I've always wanted to go back and we watch it's such an investment though

Like it is such an investment that I'm just kind of like I'll do it at some point, you know

I'll do it at some point when I have the time because there's so many episodes

Honestly, I'm not gonna lie. I'm on five. It feels like I'm looking at a hundred hours

There's a huge difference between Breaking Bad and something like Babylon 5 Breaking Bad

I started and then dropped and then went back to because people wouldn't shut up about it

And I made myself go through that series. It's not a fun show

Yeah, no, if you get invested in the characters at all, it's not like I said

Oh, I season one of Breaking Bad and I was just like this shows great. I understand why people love it

Yeah, but I'm not feeling great. I'm not feeling great at the end of the night. Yeah

I don't it's it's it. Yeah. I don't want to I don't like this. All right, things are gonna happen

so let me let me get what I've been watching lately and it's not a huge list and it's not gonna incur any type of

Discussion like yours did because I really enjoyed you talking about yours number one

I watched last night or two nights ago. I watched attack on Titan the live-action version

Did you ever watch attack of Titan the anime?

No, okay. So it's a completely hyper violent glory gory

Crazy anime and then somebody wouldn't made a live-action of it. It's actually pretty good

I just watched part one the other night. It was pretty good tonight on my cue

I have there's an somebody was talking about there's on Amazon Prime

There's a show called the booksellers or a documentary called the booksellers, which is like I think it's like two hours

Which is about New York City bookstores that sell rare books

So as you can see, I'm not as exciting

But I'm excited to watch that tonight so

Actually, I want to go check out the booksellers that sounds intriguing yeah, that's pretty good

Yeah, so that also yeah, I got looping three, which is an anime looping through the first

Which is an anime movie on blu-ray the other day that I need to watch also

But of course that's about two and a half hour movie something like that probably not gonna watch that tonight

But anyways good. I enjoy this new segment

I enjoy branching out a little bit more than the Star Wars universe to just show other things were consuming our opinions on other things

We're consuming so good this worked out really well. So next week we will have William back

We will be talking about The Clone Wars the movie which we have a discussion with William about two weeks ago

We were talking about The Clone Wars movie is actually the first four pilot episodes combined

For The Clone Wars before they actually came out John. Thanks for joining me again

Thank you. Good time as always. We'll see you guys next time on episode 17. We're reviewing The Clone Wars movie

This is the 11 parsecs podcast episode 16

If you enjoyed this podcast, please take a moment to subscribe and leave us a good review

And be sure to check us out at 11 parsecs.com and discord. I'm Jonathan Smith with the always obedient Eric Thompson

Thank you for joining us