Episode 11: (25 BBY) Dooku Jedi Lost by Cavan Scott

Qui-Gon, why do we park on driveways?

Why do we drive on parkways?

Qui-Gon...

Rail's drunk again.

Help me figure this out.

I'm gonna try and talk to this snake.

Everything you'd want to know about Count Dooku's past.

Why he left the Jedi Order.

How he trained under Yoda.

Everything you need to know.

If you can manage to pay attention.

Today we discuss Dooku Jedi Lost by Cavan Scott on this edition of the 11 Parsecs Podcast.

Hello and welcome to Podcast number 11 of the 11 Parsecs Podcast.

I'm your host Derek. I'm here with my good buddy John.

Hello.

My good buddy William.

Howdy.

And today we are going over Dooku Jedi Lost the audiobook.

It was written by Cavan Scott, Random House Audio, and came out in April of 2019.

I didn't know this whenever I was listening to the actual audiobook, but they printed the script for it in October of 2019.

I saw that as well.

Yeah, we'll have to discuss that because I think there's an interesting point in there.

But first off, as anybody that listens to this podcast knows, two things are about to happen.

Number one, you're about to hear a ton of spoilers.

So if you don't want to hear anything about the audio drama Dooku Jedi Lost by Cavan Scott, turn off this podcast right now.

The second thing that is about to happen is that we are all about to open some beers and in a certain case, clink a glass.

So let's go, William.

What are you drinking tonight?

24 ounces of double shot white Russian.

Oh my God, that's what I said.

He told me earlier.

And I was like, that's a big gulp of white Russian.

That's huge.

24 ounces and double the, I like to double the Kluwe and vodka.

It's not really white, it's kind of tan.

Yeah, I'd say at that point, they can't tell the color.

It's like, oh man.

John, what are you drinking?

Can I open my beer now?

Okay, you want to pop first and then we talk?

Yeah, then we talk about the beer.

First we open the beer, then we drink the beer, then we talk about the beer.

All right, on three, two, and we'll get a clink of the glass from you, William.

Three, two, one.

There we go.

All right.

So my beer is not local per se.

Yeah, it's not local per se, but it's local-ish.

It is from Dissolver, which is in Asheville, North Carolina.

I've heard of this brewery.

I have not.

I've never seen this before.

And this one is called Spreadsheets and Deadlines.

I like the name.

I like the name.

It's a nice, juicy IPA.

So do you know any other beers by them that I might know?

TPS for pork?

TPS for pork, yeah.

That would be a good one.

That would be good.

That would be a good one.

That would be good.

It is very hazy.

Look at that.

So it's funny you got a hazy because I'm drinking a hazy Imperial right now,

the Higher Plain IPA from New Belgium.

I think I've seen that one.

I think I've had that one.

You may have.

It's fairly common.

So it's the one with the little skeleton kind of like sitting in the yoga pose

with, like, the big glowy thing glowing in his lap.

Yeah, rings a bell.

It's pretty good, pretty good.

I've actually bought a six-pack for the podcast,

but I've already torn open two of them last night.

So it is what it is.

Treat yourself.

Treat yourself, girl.

All right, so this is our first audio drama.

We talked about –

This is our only audio drama.

Please God, tell me.

It probably is, and there may be a reason for that.

So first off, as John probably knows, I'm about to ask this question.

William, can you give me a score of 1 through 100 on this?

If I remember right, I think your Episode 1 score was high 70s, low 80s?

Yeah.

I'm going to give this – I wish I could break it up.

I understand it's an overall score.

Overall, overall, 60.

The medium and the story.

Yeah, 60.

Okay.

John, what do you got?

I think I'm in that same ballpark, and I know what William's saying

because I want to give it a high score for the production value.

It's a treat to listen to.

It is.

But I didn't get into the story all that much.

I didn't really care for the story all that much.

I didn't learn much from the story.

So, yeah, kind of a middling grade.

So I'm going to be the highest here.

I'm giving it about a 75, which is still pretty low.

It is.

It's low compared to some of the other media that we've consumed thus far in our journey.

So I think there's two things that you got to do here.

Number one is you got to separate the medium and the way the medium is given to the consumer,

and then also the actual story itself.

Where do we start?

I was going to say that this was particularly hard for me because this is the first audio

drama but I think I told you guys in the last podcast my favorite medium for Star Wars is

actually audiobooks.

So I was expecting something different.

Audiobooks are very very high quality production as well, the only difference is there's not

voice actors.

They still have sound effects and that kind of stuff but just one voice actor.

So I expected this to be, I don't know, maybe my expectations were a little too high, but

production quality wise it was good but the story wise, again, it's like Johnson and I

had a hard time keeping it.

But since the audiobooks, some of the, I mean, my favorite, if you ask me what's my favorite

of all time Star Wars stuff, it's going to be an audiobook.

I'm not going to say which one yet because we haven't gotten to it.

But yeah, so this was kind of disappointing.

Well I feel the need, honestly, to apologize to our many many listeners that I really struggled

with this one.

I, you know, back in pre-pandemic days you may have had a commute and that's the obvious

time when you would listen to something like this.

No one has a commute anymore so I was having to carve out time to sit and listen to this

thing and I'm just, I guess I'm just too ADD now.

My attention would wander off pretty quickly and then it's who's talking again and why

are they fighting?

And am I supposed to care who wins?

So I go back and read it, listen to it again, listen to it again, listen to it again.

It took forever.

Yeah, the format is what got me, like, I don't know how to describe it.

I actually really enjoyed the last two to three hours of the story.

I thought it was really good.

It's just that, number one, I totally agree with you, if I had a commute this would be

right up my alley again.

It'd have to be a few commutes being it.

I think it clocked in at six hours and 15 minutes total.

I think I actually, and William you're kind of getting into this, I think I actually like

one person's voice even just making other voices than I do having the cast because there

was like some times when I felt like it was the same person just in a different character

and I'd be like that was the guy that sounded like, you know, Kai and I don't know.

I'm not a fan of audio dramas.

I guess you both said that it was hard because you felt like you had to carve out a time

and that's why it shocked me because I'm a big audiobook fan and I've never had that

problem before because I don't have a commute.

I work from home.

So I've never had a problem just like sitting in a chair, eating some popcorn and listening

to an audiobook.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, you're literally sitting in the chair like you're watching a movie

but you're listening to the audiobook.

That's how I do it.

That is occupying your total attention.

Yep.

With this one I could not do it.

I was never going to finish it.

The way I ended up finishing it was by basically farming in a video game while I was listening.

Just mindless killing of things and getting loot.

Like I said, which is why it surprised me because I've never had that problem before

of being able to focus on an audiobook.

I can't, unfortunately I haven't been able to figure out the difference, how is this

different than an audiobook but it is definitely somehow different.

Here's what I think the difference is, is that when you have an audiobook and you have

one author reading, there's a sequential pause that has to happen between characters and

you don't have that in an audio drama.

Like you could have multiple people saying something at once, you could have screams

and yells and multiple people saying, I don't know.

I am amazed, William, that you can actually sit there and listen to this just sitting

on the couch eating popcorn.

I really am.

I can't do that.

Seriously, I would be bored out of my mind.

Like I said, I was not able to do that with this one.

With an audiobook, right.

Because to me it's the same as reading a book and I get very into books.

I think you've kind of nailed it.

Maybe it gets too close to being a movie that I just can't, I'm not being sucked into the

world.

I feel like I'm still viewing it from the outside but without any vision.

Whereas an actual book, I feel like I can actually picture myself in that world, which

I was not able to do with this.

So let's talk about the story.

Let's talk about, there's, number one, I really wanted to know a lot more about Doku.

That was like, I was excited for this just because I feel like he's one of those under

guided or misrepresented characters in the prequels that like, you know nothing about

him.

He's not really doing anything about it.

He gets no screen time.

He's played by an amazing actor and you just don't get any character development from him

at all.

And that's what this was.

This was a pretty big character development book about him.

But what was interesting was it was also kind of a big character development book.

I mean, and Kai, I mean, you know, it's kind of like a, the, the weird, I shouldn't say the weird, the interesting thing to me was that she is kind of like the, I don't want to call her the muse, but she's the like the, the navigator on the ship for this entire history of Dooku.

But then you also have Kai, who's like alongside her kind of giving a, a captain of the ship of her backstory. So it was, it was neat in that there was kind of like three stories going on. Did you guys like that? Did you not like it?

No, I hated it. I hated it because I was having trouble keeping up with it anyway. And in a, in any other medium, I think that would be very well, a very good device to navigate the story. But here, because I was having trouble keeping up with it anyway, it was just another layer of confusion. And I don't necessarily fault the piece for that. That's, that's more of a me problem.

Well, it was a you problem. I also have it because, and I don't have, like I said, I don't have that in audiobooks. I kept losing focus. I'm like, wait a minute, who is, who, who's, who's doing what now? And I just, and that was with me not doing anything else. So.

Okay, so I take that back. It's not a me problem. It's a, it's a them problem.

It's just, it was straight up.

I liked it. I liked the three stories. I brought it up because I liked it. I kind of, well, maybe it's just because it was Asajj. Maybe it's just because it was Kai. Like, maybe I was just like, oh, I kind of knew who these people are.

Somewhat, not, not a huge, not, you know, I don't want to get into anything in the future. I know who they are.

I don't. I don't know any of these people.

You don't. And that's why you may be coming in at a, at a, at a disadvantage, not knowing these characters at all. Because this is your introduction to them.

I know William knows a ton about them. I know a little bit about them, but there's still, I know enough to make them interesting to hear their backstory.

Yeah, I, I kind of like that part of the work. I thought it was neat kind of layering it on and me thinking, going, going into this thinking that it's going to be just about Doku and his story, but the way that they presented it was pretty good.

Oh, no, I was very pleasantly surprised that it followed. I mean, got heavily into a complete brain melt here.

Yeah, Ventress. I just, without going into any spoilers, you know, I think I've mentioned to you guys before that I'm addicted to gacha games.

One of the very first gacha game I ever got addicted to was Star Wars. What's it called? Galaxy at War, I think, something like that.

I don't remember. It's a trading card game for mobile. And God, did I spend a lot of money on it. But she was my favorite. She was my favorite character. I named my guild after her and everything.

I just love that character. So to actually get to hear some of her backstories was very cool. It just, unfortunately, it was confusing format to me.

I love the idea. I love what they were trying to do. But, uh, well, there's no other way to do it to cover what they were trying to cover.

This is really the only way to do that in a way that's not stupid. I mean, you can't just tell it in a linear fashion. Right. That would be really boring.

Yeah, you got to have the flashback type situations. I totally agree with that.

The switching between, I actually had a hard time following switching back and forth between Sifus and Dooku. I'm like, wait a minute, who's this happening to? I don't know if you guys experienced that or not.

The Sifu Dias' master, Leen, I thought she was an interesting character. And the only way that I could really discern her from the other female Jedi in the story was the lady's accent. The voice actress's accent.

Yeah, I thought it was the same person for a long time.

Yeah, there was like two other Jedi females in the story that I just really couldn't keep them separate because I was like, which one is this?

Yeah, so a lot of times I had to even rewind it and like, okay, was that going on between Dooku and that lady or Leena? Is that her name?

Leen, I think it was just Leen.

Leen, or was that Sifus? And like I said, for some reason I had a hard time distinguishing between the two, even though they're definitely different. I think they're even different voice actors.

No, they are, yeah.

And even too, even too with Dooku and Sifu Dias and the other kids back whenever they were little Padawans, like before they, or sorry, before they were even Padawans, when they were younglings, like there was a couple of scenes in the very beginning of the book, or audio drama, where like they'd all be talking to each other.

And I'd be like, wait, who just said that? Like, I'd have to really like try to figure out which one was just saying that. Like Dooku kind of had a little bit of a stalwart way that he spoke or the way the voice actor portrayed him.

Yeah, I could pick up on him, no problem.

Yeah, but Sifu Dias and some of the other guys, I was just kind of like, who just said that? Like Sifu Dias was the ha ha kind of kid, but there was still some hard part.

Who's this Jedi woman that you guys are raving about? Ventress?

Ventress.

It didn't help that the voice actress for that, like every single one of them.

I pictured Yzma from Emperor's New Groove, because that's her voice.

Is that actually the voice actress's voice?

No, that's Eartha Kitt in Emperor's New Groove.

But the voice is like Yzma.

You sounded offended that I didn't know that was Eartha Kitt.

I haven't had a chance to look this up.

Eric, do you know is this the same lady that does the voice of Ventress in other medium?

I actually don't know.

But let's get back to Eartha Kitt here.

I thought you sounded mad that I didn't know it was Eartha Kitt in Emperor's New Groove.

I'm Googling like crazy on the side here.

I'm not kidding. That was her voice. I just had to look up.

So in the cartoons that we will soon be watching, what William is referring to is

Asajj Ventress is a pretty major character.

And she has a very distinct voice artist in that series.

And I don't think that it was William.

I mean you can probably look it up, but I don't think it was the same one.

Maybe I'm wrong.

She sounds very, very similar if it isn't her.

They're both very similar.

I'm looking it up now. Oh man, she's been voiced by like 50 different people.

Oh yeah, because you got to remember you have the...

Homeward, Legos.

Yeah, I don't want to get into too far with her.

But John will see her again very soon.

That wasn't the only voice that I had a problem with, by the way.

If you say Rael Averroes, John...

That is not how he sounds.

No, Rael was my favorite character of this whole thing.

I'm going to tell you, good buddy.

I mean that is not how he sounded in my head in Master and Apprentice.

Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, no, no, no, no.

Cowboy, Jedi.

You read Master and Apprentice.

I listened to part of Master and Apprentice.

That is Rael Averroes.

That is the most Rael Averroes.

Not in my head, I'm sorry.

Oh man, he's like Burt Reynolds just sleeping across the galaxy.

No, just no.

Man, he's awesome.

He's like awesome.

I love that.

Sleeping with people all over the universe.

It's Rael Averroes, man.

What are you talking about?

I love Rael.

In the Star Wars universe, every time they have that kind of accident,

they're always like a rebel mechanic.

Oh, no, no, no.

So, William, one of the first books we read for the podcast was Master and Apprentice.

And I don't know if you remember that book or not, but Rael is a pretty big part of that book.

Oh, yeah, I'm agreeing with you.

That's why I loved it.

That's why I even put it in our Discord.

The fact that they could have a good old boy be a Jedi was nice.

Yeah, I totally agree with that.

Rather than a Greef monkey.

And I thought the dynamic between him and Doku was really weird

because I remember reading Master and Apprentice being like,

Doku trained this dude?

How did Doku put up with this guy?

But then Doku in this story, you see Doku's just kind of like,

you know, you're an outsider, man.

I'm fine with that.

I am too.

Let's just get through this.

And they end up becoming pretty good friends, it sounds like.

I think it's because Rael is so easygoing that it doesn't matter.

Yeah, that may be it too.

It was just over the top for me.

It was too much.

Was it really?

You didn't listen to the audio book.

I wish I could go cut up.

Well, apparently I shouldn't because if it sounds like that.

The guy that did the Master and Apprentice audio book did the voices really, really well.

And I feel like he did Rael Averroes pretty spot on.

Did he do Qui-Gon as like this?

He totally did.

Really?

Yeah, straight up had the accent and everything.

You know, it's like Lucky Charms thing.

Oh, Master Faith and Bagora.

Okay.

I was like, you didn't like the voice acting in this.

Okay.

No.

Qui-Gon grew on me towards the end, but at first it was like, tone it down a notch, man.

Yeah, it was a little bit over the top.

Yeah.

I got a few things I want to hit on.

Just I just want to get some temperature readings from you guys.

The way that Foresight, the way that we see Sifo-Dyas using or having Foresight.

Yeah, not using it.

He's being forced upon him.

Yeah, it's being forced upon him.

What did you guys think of that?

Was that something that was like, I don't know.

Like I, yeah, I don't know.

What do you guys thought?

I'm going to say that this may be interesting, my take versus John's take because two different angles.

This is a thing you ran into when you were listening to things chronologically rather than released by.

Because I think this is more to fill in holes.

And I can only imagine what it was like for you, John, to have this, like, what the heck?

I'm curious to hear.

But for me, it filled in a lot of gaps.

So I'm in total agreement with you, William.

John, the only mention that you've heard of Sifo-Dyas is from the prequels, right?

I had to go back.

Somebody mentioned that somewhere, and I had to go back and look that up.

We're going to cover that shortly in Episode 2.

I totally forgot.

Totally forgotten that that was, he was the one, because it's so glossed over in Episode 2.

We're not going to go into that right now.

But it's so glossed over in Episode 2 that I didn't remember that name.

But, no, that's the only exposure I had, and it didn't stick.

Right.

No, yeah, I get it.

And it's so minute.

in the movie.

I mean it's like...

Yeah, so you know, make up a whole thing for him.

Okay, so I...

I started bringing his name, Sifo-Dyas.

I thought it was really weird where Lee and Sifo-Dyas' relationship where he would just...

I mean she pretty much took care of him like a caretaker, it sounds like, at least from

the time of the Bacta thing on.

She literally like not just was his master Padawan, it was...

She took care of him when they traveled the galaxy just to keep him out of the clutches

of the evil Jedi.

Jedi, yes, the very evil Jedi.

Yeah, and I'm sitting there like, okay, come on, they're gonna use his foresight.

And then of course Yoda's staunchly against it.

The whole Jedi Council's like, no, no, we don't need to use this.

And they barely know that Sifo-Dyas can do it.

And Yoda saw that one thing where they went to the Bacta planet and they saved the people.

So he knows it's there, but toward the end of the book, Lee's talking about like...

They're gonna ship him off to like some...

It was like a...

What was it?

Citadel?

Yeah, the Citadel.

They had a special place at the Citadel for foresight bearers.

They kept them locked up and stuff.

And I'm like, come on, man.

I mean, you're like...

You're...

Wow.

Well, this is leading into something that I think William wants to cover.

Well, the actual story part, which is...

Story-wise, I think any time a story brings out strong emotions, it does at least a decent

job there.

The very beginning of this book, I mean, I...

And from other media as well, but this one I think drives it home.

And it certainly helps explain like with Anakin.

But Jedi are not good people.

The kind of stuff they do, it should be of no surprise that there's things like this

happen.

You can't do that.

Basically, you know, coming like a thief in the night and stealing children away, and

then forcing them to never, ever, you know, talk about them or see them again.

That's just an open door for the dark side.

Well, I'll admit that it sounds monstrous, but given the existence of The Force and the

powers that a person can wield using The Force, dark side lights or whatever, what are you

supposed to do?

I mean, if you just...

Wouldn't it be chaos and devastation unless someone imposes order?

Well, not against imposing order, but forcing them to ignore their family, that's...

That's an ongoing theme here.

Even here, right?

It's family attachments or emotional attachments, if you want to be more broad, is what leads

to the Emperor problems.

Yeah, all the problems, right?

And the Emperor being the biggest example.

So, yes, you have to sever those ties in order to create a sort of a Force zombie, you know?

I don't know.

It did sit well with me.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if it can, given the setup.

I agree with that.

I don't think that it can, given the setup, but you definitely understand a better...

You definitely have a better understanding of why they were so hesitant to take Anakin

and older kids after the time has come.

Because, I mean, okay, so we got to talk about Doku and Gorra, or Count Gorra, or whatever

his name was.

This dude was so pissed at the Sith from generations before him that once he saw that his kid was

Force-sensitive, he literally laid the baby out in the woods and then told the Jedi, hey,

come get him if you want him.

Yep.

Like, that's some harsh stuff too, though.

I mean, that's like, you know, it goes both ways, I think.

It's almost like we think of people that are Force-sensitive as, oh, this is the best thing

in the world.

Like, not the best thing in the world, but this person's going to go become a Jedi, blah,

blah, blah.

But, I mean, it sounds like there's some planets like Serenno that, no, man, we don't want

that here.

You know what I mean?

You guys know the Twilight Zone, the movie from the 80s?

Oh, yeah.

Okay, you remember that segment with the little kid who could do anything?

Oh, yeah.

I will never be able to shake that.

Yeah, that was freaking terrifying.

So, his whole family's living in terror of him.

He can, like, take their mouths away and stuff.

That's basically the setup that you have with The Force.

Yeah.

Okay.

I haven't seen that.

Everybody looks at, everybody thinks, you know, if my kid had The Force, well, parents

think this, if my kid had The Force, right, it'd be cool and they could, like, fetch me

beer from the fridge without having to get up.

But it's more, there's more to it than that.

Yeah, I agree with that.

That's the boy.

They're going to choke me when they're angry.

Yeah, that's the boy's setup, isn't it?

I mean, that's like, kind of the...

Yeah, the boy, that's what I was thinking of as well.

Yeah, and we won't get into that, you know, that Suga's going to want to spoil it for

anyone, but yeah, that's kind of the gist of it, is like, ooh, man, are we sure we want

this?

And that amount of power, you have no choice but to have, you make some really tough decisions,

let's say.

Yeah, so the bigger problem may be that the Jedi screwed up in ever letting him have contact

again with his family.

Was that an accident?

To be fair, though, they didn't know.

Yeah, so remember, he bumps into his sister, like, Jed's a...

Before the lightsaber competition when they happened to be on Serenno

So like so it was a little confusing too is like how does he know that he's from that planet?

Like because remember he goes back and he's like, yeah, this is where I was born

But he doesn't know anything about his family

He happens to see Jinza in the crowd and all that kind of stuff and he's like, oh

Then they start talking and then they have that huge little like skirmish with the two shark guy and the other guy

So it's kind of like a like

Yeah, I don't know because it so for people that are listening to that basically

there's like a little like a rubble arousal and

they defeat they Jinza and

Ramil and

Dooku Dooku being the main one defeats these two guys that are trying to steal something from them or just basic TV, right?

so basically

they

Take Dooku down into this like castle

It's their family's castle basically and he touches the side of a poe like a post or a podium or something like that or pull

And he feels this just uber presence is dark dark presence and he ends up tearing the place up

I mean he literally collapses like I think that one big room if I remember right and Yoda has to rush in there and then

It's not lean. It's the other female Jedi

They have to hold the stuff up while they remove the kids and all this other kind of stuff and then of course

You know count gore comes down. It's like what is the meaning of this Yoda? What are you doing here Yoda?

and Yoda's like, oh I didn't think I'd see you again and

And then that's when he realizes that you know, his son

effectively is the one that kind of started all this and I don't know if it's count gore at that point knows that the

Tarataka is you know

If he's feeling the Tarataka or if the Tarataka speaking out to him, but he just wants him off planet

He's like, yeah, right. I'll get out of here get

Actually, it makes me wonder because you know, it's mentioned in

towards Anakin and definitely mentioned again, you know Luke about

Much too old that they're much too old to be trained

I wonder if this is kind of what's its precedence for it because I just yeah

Once you reach a certain age, you can't remove the family from them

But see that's the thing though is you gonna remember Doku was laid out as a baby though

Like he all he knows is that this planet is his is is the planet he was from that's all he knows

He feels through The Force I guess because yeah, it's gonna be through The Force. It's always gonna be yeah

Yeah, he feels that this person is somebody that he should know or knows or whatever and it ends up being a sister

That was the line to no matter which no matter what

Precautions you take to try and erase them or several the ties between them and their family or planet or people

right, there's always gonna be the

The feelings through The Force so it's a fool's errand. Well, and that can bring out, you know a lot of anger

You know, you see what like with stepchildren, you know can go one or two ways

There's these stepchildren either accept their stepparents as their parents

like my mom did and or you've got

Kids that just will never accept it no matter how good their stepparents were

And have to go seek out their real parents, even though you know, that's not their parents the parents the ones who raised them

So I think the same way that

Different people can handle that differently. They could be very you know, like

Doku should be grateful to the Jedi because they

You know saved him but at the same time

He's resentful because they took him away from his sister, which he obviously has a very strong bond to

So yeah, I think it all comes down to the relationship with the sister for the whole book

I mean, that's like that's that's by far the biggest Biden that ties Ramil

He hates I mean you can see it, you know, even toward the end of the book

He hates his older brother or older younger. I forget which older younger brother

But um, and then you of course you see total resentment for the dad

But it's just interesting because his family was the highest ranking family on this entire planet and and it's

You know, it's got a pull at him that he's kind of like, you know what? I have this family back here

I have a backup plan really if I don't like this Jedi thing, you know, I can go

You know run the family businesses or at least hopefully be part of it. You know, once dad goes so I you know

It's an interesting dynamic and I'm really glad that they touched on in the story because I like the fact that

It shows not only did he just throw down his lightsaber and leave the Jedi Order because he was pissed

He had a reason he had something he could go do and he could go help

And that was that was an interesting dynamic to me and Jensa wrecked everything

Did she did she think about it she calls three different characters three to the three main people

All of them had their turning points because of her

And all three of them went bad. I mean as far as they made

morally

unacceptable choices

Because of her actions like her, you know

The one brother never felt like he was good enough

And the other brother felt like he always had to come to his rescue and of course Ventress just got caught in the middle

But yeah, she she was the focal point for all three of them

She was the focal point for all three of them, um

That was, I got to the very end, I was like, that's an interesting dynamic, I never even thought about that because, you know, the one, I don't know if it's going too far, too fast, but you know, the whole thing that Dooku is trying to stop the brother from killing her.

And, you know, let's let's let's touch on that. I don't think you're going too fast because we're spoiler full podcast and there's gonna be tons of spoilers. I have a question for both of you. What do you think was the final straw in Dooku turning to the dark side? Do you think it was when he killed Ramiel? Do you think it was when he killed the Terataka? Or do you think it was when he killed Jinsa?

Well, the final straw, I think, is when he killed Jinsa. I think that he was meant to be the final straw. I didn't really, I thought symbolically it was the Terataka. I thought that was him. That was because he because you sit there and you say he just leave this beast alone. When he leans down there in the in the underworld before it erupts into the whole planet and everything.

Like she's down there and he's like, this is like a pet. This is like something that this is a beast that we can control. We can do the whole two bodies, one mind thing and and we can, you know, save this beautiful beast. And then literally, 10 minutes later, after he kills Ramiel, he's like diving with like a lightsaber right into this thing's gut or the skull and killing it.

Yeah, that was actually very confusing for me. Yeah, it was. No, that's it. And that's exactly my point. It's just like, I feel like after he kills Ramiel, he feels so much hate. He's like, I don't care about this animal anymore. This beautiful beast that somehow I am the only person that it seeks out. I'm the only person that on two occasions, it's come and let me know that I belong to this planet. And I'm going to slam my lightsaber through its skull.

No, it's meant to be turning on his sister. Well, yeah, I think he was trying to save his sister. That and also I think, you know, remember, he kept apologizing to the creature. I think he realized he had to put it out of his misery. That's the way I took that. I didn't think he had completely turned yet. I think the door had been open for sure. But I based on how much he kept apologizing to the creature and saying that was never his intent.

I think I thought he was putting it out of his misery and trying to save his sister. Maybe, you know, that's just my take. But is it real? Yeah, real, right?

Abrams, the general real, real, real partner. But I know why you guys are making fun of me. Like, what do I feel? I like it. Yes, I love that voice. I was telling my wife about it. But the way he said, you know, I wish I could remember how to say your first name Ventress anyway, about you still there's still a chance of redemption until this is done. I think that meant both of them.

I took that to mean both of them, that they both still had a chance.

Oh, wait, are you thinking of Kai?

Yes, yes, Kai. Sorry.

Yeah, Kai. Okay. Not real, Abrams. You're thinking of Kai. And for those that are just listening to this Boiling podcast and not worrying about reading this book at any point, Kai is a Jedi that he left the Order. He's one of the Lost 20 or whatever you call them. He left the Order, but ended up, I don't remember exactly how, but he came across Asajj Ventress, and he decided to train her outside of the Order.

And that's how she developed a lot of her Force skills and all this other stuff. But he was not a Jedi at that time. It was kind of like they were two Rebels, you know, like, just kind of like beating the system, but she needed a teacher. And so he started to teach her. And then he ends up dying. And she communicates with him. I mean, throughout this whole thing, which I don't think that was any type of like, like weird mental thing in her head. I think it really was like a Blue Glowy type situation. Do you guys feel like that?

I did not have a clear answer on that one.

Okay.

It was never answered.

Right.

No, it wasn't. And I think that's probably what adds to the mystique of Ventress. Is she a crazy person? And obviously she is. But is that part of it? But also the voices stop when she makes that choice.

I do love that, by the way.

Exactly.

She has the mystique of, is she a crazy person? Well, I mean, obviously she is.

Even without the voices, I'd venture to say that she's probably a bit crazy. But yes, I agree with you.

But I mean, I just think of, you think about the turning point for so many people to the dark side. I mean, even going to the movies, like the more recent ones that they have to always fulfill some sort of final act to the end of voices. And that consciousness that Jiminy Cricket, if you will.

The draw. Yeah, the draw of the dark side. I agree with that. Conscience.

Conscience. Yeah. So that was hers. So I wondered if, and maybe Dooku had already gone through that.

I don't think he had. I really don't think he had. I think by the time he kills Jinza, he totally has, of course.

Okay.

But that was years later. So if the dates are right that I've.

going on here. He was 90 BBY whenever he got taken away to the Jedi and then the story picks up, or the main part of the story where Asajj is, just the part where Asajj is actually hunting down Jinza or finding Jinza is 25 BBY.

Yeah.

So he's already turned a while back. Like he's pretty ruthless at this point.

And we know that he's already been talking to Palpatine.

You mentioned the cloak figure.

The man in the cloak. You need to stop listening to the man in the cloak. I just had this vision of like some like crazy like naked guy that runs around in a cloak.

And they're just chatting having like a cigarette or something around like a campfire or something.

Is that you on Sunday?

You really gotta stop talking to that man in the cloak. He's kind of weird, man.

But yeah, basically, you know, the same kind of thing with Anakin and as far as the very thing that caused him to rebel against the Order is what, you know, actually ends up bringing him further to the dark side.

You know, this whole thing was about protecting his sister. And then in the very end, you know, turns against her. And same thing I think you could say with Anakin.

He stopped trusting. Well, I'm skipping ahead because we don't know that yet. But I'm just saying this.

We'll cover that after Episode two, Wade.

Yeah, we seem to, there seems to be a theme is that the thing that pushes them away is also what draws them in. It's like almost like a hypocritical thing.

And it's also always family, like Bloodline family.

Yes.

Yeah, that's I think that's the whole point of the whole like that's what I got out of this book at least was that the Bloodline family is like a family.

It's not like a family. It's like a force. It's like a family.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's the whole point of the book is that the Bloodline family is still going to overpower any teachings by anybody.

Maybe I mean, but in more general terms, it's not family per se, right? It's it's emotional attachment.

Right. It's The Force.

I mean, he knew he had his mom, of course. I don't think you have to know that you have that family. Through The Force, all things are possible.

Playing the wild card. Yes, I agree with you, John. I'll draw for but agreed.

I have examples of people of characters divining familial attachments using nothing but The Force.

I don't remember what you're talking about. What are you talking about?

You really don't remember? No.

The one that occurs to me is Vader talking to Luke. Oh, baby. Baby sister. Yeah.

Sister. Yeah. Exactly. Sister. Oh, it's right there in my head. Oh, man. I can hear that.

I thought I thought you were talking about something that we had already read previous. That's where I was trying to get back. I was like, wait a minute. What?

Yeah. And in John's fairness, and in fairness to John, even though he doesn't know this, yes, it's it's reference.

It's reference to another thing. Even though he doesn't know yet.

You're not wrong. Freaking moron. He doesn't know a damn thing.

He is his perception skill. He just rolled a critical critical because it is referenced in other books and stuff.

Yeah, I had the impression. I mean, that's the one example I think of, but but I was pretty sure that was established like that. That's a thing.

The Force can do really, really cool stuff and do whatever is needed. You can do whatever it wants. Yep.

So let's get back to because I actually did make a note. I don't know what the scene was. I should have written this down.

But about halfway through the audio drama, I wrote down still don't get the idea of balance.

So there was a really weird line in the audio drama that deals exactly with that. It's whenever they're doing the ritual of three.

So after Doku, Sephodius and Lean have gone through this weird cave like thing where they're about to get sacrificed to somebody,

they go through this darkness like this uber darkness ritual and they hear voices.

They have all these different dark feelings. And when they come out of it, Lean is like super scared that they're going to get to the dark side.

So she teaches them to do the ritual of three, which is like this like chant thing and also to wear this band around their arms.

And it's really weird to me because she's like in the three things that have to be in balance.

She's like light, dark and balance. And I'm like, wait, what?

And I literally like backed it up a couple of times. I was like, wait, what are the three things that they're praying to?

Light, dark and balance. And I was like, I don't understand why there's three here.

I think I remember that. Yeah.

And then she talks about wrapping the arm thing around. And that's interesting because that is a good flashback to the movies where Doku has the thing wrapped around his arm.

And then also, if you notice in the newer movies, people have things wrapped around their arms.

And I won't get into that because it's a little bit of a spoiler. So it's very interesting that that was touched on, I guess.

But yeah, I think that's it.

The really weird thing was the balance part. I get the light, I get the dark, but they look at the balance as a third entity, almost?

Well, I think that's... I think...

To me that means that there's this automatic assumption on the Jedi side that anything that isn't light is evil.

Which is funny because they always want to talk about absolutes, but Dooku is not a bad guy.

Dooku is definitely not a bad guy.

That's a great point. That's a great point, William. That is, that's a good point.

There's several people like that. They're not evil in themselves. There's no doubt in the Emperor is evil.

But think about it, they have no choice. They have no...

The people who aren't with the Jedi have no other place to go.

So it's very easy for the Sith to take them in.

It's... yeah, it creates an... the Jedi have created an impossible situation for people who may be of balance.

Yeah, force sensitive. I agree with that. That's a great point. That is a really good point.

And also that makes sense because they touch on the lost 20 in this thing.

Who's that Jedi? That's the lost blah blah blah, the lost blah blah blah.

Where they really aren't lost, they kind of know what they want. They're the balanced part of it, you know.

Well, and it also makes more sense... this one we see in Phantom Menace.

Qui-Gon's already having this problem in Phantom Menace about balance.

About how important that balance has been lost to the Jedi.

And think of now, you know, who his teacher is, who also felt that way.

Oh, that's the Master and Apprentice book in a nutshell, William.

Oh, is it? Okay.

Yeah, you need to read that book. You really do. It's very well written.

And I would say it's probably more about Qui-Gon Jinn than it is about Obi-Wan.

But it's more about Qui-Gon Jinn and how he's like this kind of... he's still in the Jedi Order, but he's very rebellious.

It's a very Doku-esque thing, but it's like Doku... it's like a bargain basement Doku.

Like he's against it, but he's not like gonna leave the Order.

Yes. Yeah. Well, and he pretty much decides to take on Anakin by himself.

Yeah, almost in direct contrast to everybody on the Council.

He's like, I don't care what you're gonna do. I'm gonna do it.

Okay, so I want to bring up a couple of other things in the book that I thought was really interesting.

And William, you're allowed to answer this question because you've read way more than we have,

or no way more than we have about this.

Are the Seekers a thing, or is that something that came out of this book?

The...

The Seekers are the class of Jedi that... I don't want to say hunt down Force-sensitive children,

but they go find Force-sensitive children, and that's all they do.

They just fly around the galaxy literally looking for Force-sensitive kids and bringing them back to the Jedi.

I had not heard that before.

I have not... if I have, I don't remember it.

Now, I do remember it on the other side.

I mean, Vader has a whole team of them.

Agreed. Yes, for later on. Yeah, I agree with that.

But for the Jedi, this sounded like a class of Jedi.

Yeah, that I was not familiar with. I'm like, that's why it actually confused me. I'm like, wait, what?

And the interesting setup for it, though, in this audio book is that there's one of the Seekers

that's been with the Temple for 30 years or something like that.

They go and find these Force-sensitive kids, comes home with a Force-sensitive kid,

and it ends up being her kid, her child. Right.

And she doesn't tell anybody for like 30 years, and she gets blackmailed.

And there's a whole little... it's a pretty good little mini-story, I think, in the audio book about it.

Yeah, that was good. Now, speaking as someone who doesn't know all the things that you guys know,

the Seeker class of Jedi, it made perfect sense. Like, of course there is.

Yeah. Yeah, somebody's got to do the work. I agree.

Yeah, somebody's got to find these kids before they turn into weapons of mass destruction.

But only by the age of one, because if it's after one, they're gone. They're gone. They're going to Asylum.

Yeah, we covered this, I think, in a previous podcast.

So you run across a kid who's five years old, let's say, and he's showing promise in The Force.

Apparently he's too old to train. Will you do?

I don't think we talked about killing kids on this podcast before, John.

We have. Oh, we have. Yes, we have.

I don't think they terminate them. I don't think there's any Jedi termination.

They should. By the rules of the game, they should terminate them.

We did talk about this, because I remember this was The X-Men conversation.

No, the podcast does talk about it. Or not the podcast. Sorry, the podcast. We're in the podcast.

The audio book.

Yeah, the audio book does talk about it. They basically have that place that's not a prison.

Yeah, but that was for the people that had foresight, though.

And those are the people that they knew were going to go crazy crazy.

I'm saying you're a seeker out there in the outer rim, okay?

And you come across this kid. You hear stories, and you come across this kid.

And he's not yet 10 years old or whatever, and he can do really amazing things, like talk to snakes, right?

Isn't that cool? What are you going to do with him?

Okay.

We're either talking about really southern religion or Harry Potter. I haven't determined which.

I was going for the Voldemort.

Really? The snake handling?

I didn't know where you were headed with this one.

I was like, when did the Pentecostals introduce this?

I was like, wait a minute, we're getting way far into this.

He can literally talk to snakes, people.

I agree with you. Yes, this kid can literally talk to snakes.

And of course you're going to hear about it because you land on a planet and everybody's heard of this one kid that's crazy or whatever.

Or not crazy, but they can do all these cool things.

I don't think that there is any part of the Jedi Order that assassinates children that are well past the age of going to the temple to learn.

So they just walk away?

I think that that person will end up imploding themselves or other people.

And it is what it is. I don't know. I don't know. That's a great question. I don't know. It's an interesting question.

Hey, if I can get a spin-off series from Disney+ Plus on that, I'd love it.

Because I'd be like, what's going to happen to this kid? Is he just going to melt everyone?

Or is it going to be like a... what is he going to do?

Yeah, I can see that now. Star Wars. Galactic Abortion Squad. That's really...

No, no, no. I wasn't going that far. I was just saying like this kid doesn't get his Skittles at the grocery store one day.

Is he just going to blow everyone? I'm like, what are you doing?

No, I don't know. I don't think that... that's an interesting part of Jedi lore that I've not heard about.

And for good reason.

The secret Jedi assassins that go around the galaxy and terminate seven year olds because they can't bring them home.

I think that's why... that's why... oh, Samuel Jackson's character. Why can't I remember his name?

Mace Windu.

Mace Windu. If he was in charge, then yes. Yoda probably has more trouble killing children.

I've had it with these motherfucking children and their motherfucking force jokes.

Their force jokes? Talking to snakes?

I'm never going to live that down now.

That was good. I really was like...

I was like, man, where are we going?

Alright, so another thing I wanted to bring up.

So this is more for... because you don't read comics that much, William.

No, I need to read the comics.

I want you guys to remember the Bogan Collection, which is the collection that is in the internals of the library, the Jedi library.

That they... remember how Seifu... no, it was Doku moves the sand and they do the... they unlock the door to get into the room.

Right.

And they go down there and there's all these different artifacts and they talk about specific artifacts in the audio drama.

Specific ones.

And they're like, oh, that's blah, blah, blah, that's blah, blah, blah.

And then they get busted, you know.

And then he blows up the room or whatever, but that's coming into play later on.

It could be another Disney+ spinoff just to Warehouse 13 of Star Wars.

Yeah, yeah. Here's an artifact for this week. Let's talk about it.

You probably could.

I would totally watch that series because...

I mean, it is a lot of what I thought Star Wars was kind of about up until modern times.

Well, yeah, I think everybody did and then it got weird.

I would watch that series.

It's going to be remade.

Well, Friday the 13th, the series was like... even though I hated Friday the 13th movie.

And anybody who's never seen the series, just know that it has nothing to do with the movie.

But it's literally about going and collecting relics.

It's very Call of Cthulhu-like.

But basically these relics just show up and weird crap starts happening because those relics have power.

Yeah. Did you guys ever watch that?

No, I never watched it.

But I did happen to read the original Call of Cthulhu about six months ago during the pandemic.

And I never realized how good that was.

I thought it was good.

I thought, oh, it's a cool fandom and that kind of stuff.

And it's cool. I've seen some of the RPG elements of it, but I never really actually sat down and read it.

Man, that is a good story.

Yeah, so Friday the 13th is very similar to that and the same thing as Warehouse 13.

But anyway, like you said, to me, I think that was a good opening that they've been collecting these evil relics right there in the Jedi Council.

Oh, just wait, guys. Oh, just wait.

So speaking of Friday the 13th and masks,

I was really annoyed when they covered the blast visor training.

Maybe I else.

You mean where they're running? I mean, sorry, where they're fighting.

They use blast visors. Yeah, the duel.

As part of the standard Jedi Training.

That that's wrong. That is so annoying.

What do you let me take you back to a little ship called the Millennium Falcon?

You may have heard of it. It did the Kessel run in like less than 12 parsecs.

Yeah, something. So they're on the ship.

Obi-Wan now has this new Padawan Luke Skywalker, and he's trying to show Luke something cool about him.

And he kind of notices over in the corner a blast visor.

A helmet with a blast visor down, right?

So he grabs it, he's like, oh this will work, and he puts it on.

And they use that as a training tool.

It was spontaneous, it was in the moment.

It loses the magic.

Totally, kills all the freaking magic.

No, that was just a total thing.

And okay, so he happened to have a helmet, happened to have a blast visor down,

and he's using that because that's what you do when you're a Jedi and you're training.

I get your disdain, I get it.

Wrong.

I feel humored at this point.

I could defend it, but I'm not going to.

Good.

I could defend it.

Now let's talk about lightsaber duels, and how wrong they are.

You mean from the point of testing kids so that you can take them on as Padawans?

Yes.

Yeah, I agree with that.

You have to be extremely skilled not to seriously hurt yourself or someone else.

That's exactly what I thought whenever I was listening to podcasts.

I was sitting there like, so wait, it's got to be harder to fight somebody,

it's got to be harder to duel somebody than it has to be, to practice duel somebody,

than it has to be to actually fight them.

Than actually fight them, yes.

Yeah, like how does this not nick somebody?

You're going to lose a limb every single practice.

Well, I think it also, to me it goes into the face of that it's over emphasizing lightsaber duels

versus other force powers, which Yoda's talked about that himself.

I think even in Phantom Menace, maybe he hasn't got to do it yet.

But that's like, I don't know, it's just a very small thing.

Maybe it was Qui-Gon that talked about that.

No, that was Yoda, no that was Dooku talking about it in Episode two,

which we haven't gotten to yet, where they face off with their force powers

and Dooku says, so we're equally matched in powers of The Force, let's use our lightsabers.

And that's when they go into the lightsaber dueling.

Okay, but yeah, I think just putting too much emphasis on lightsaber duels,

like showing some sort of strength, but we know that Qui-Gon was not very good with a lightsaber,

but yet it was one of the most powerful Jedi's that ever lived, which is why he had to be snuffed.

Wait, wait, wait, he was decent with a lightsaber.

Decent, yeah, and he went up against a guy who was totally kick-ass with a lightsaber.

Yeah, Dooku taught him and Rael and Kai well.

I think that was one of the big things with all three of those guys being Padawans under Dooku,

is Dooku was like, I learned under Yoda and we're going to really learn this,

at least the lightsaber part of it.

But even, you know, Qui-Gon always mentioned that he was never as good as Mace Windu

or even Obi-Wan at dueling, but he was, I think, far more powerful force-wise than either of them.

I mean, he's one that figures out how to, you know, Ghost form, I guess, to not spoil the future.

But anyway, yeah, I would say that he's far more powerful with a force,

but not as good at lightsabers as, you know, Anakin and Obi-Wan.

Qui-Gon's seen some shit. Me and Jon talked about it on a previous podcast where we read some of the comics

where he has some really weird tree vision dreams and all sorts of stuff.

Trippy, man.

He's trippy, dude. Yeah, I like Qui-Gon. He's a good man. He's just like, whatever, dude. Let's go.

I'll actually save that for Episode 3. Never mind. Go ahead.

So I'm looking over my notes and honestly, the only other thing that I really wanted to talk about

was that Ritual of Three armband thing, but we already kind of covered it

because I thought that was a really interesting tie-in to a lot of different characters throughout the Star Wars universe.

Because, like, if you're wearing the armband thing to protect you, does that mean you've encountered something

and you know you've encountered something and you know how to rid yourself of it?

You know what I mean? Like, that was a really big, broad stroke that I think was done in this audio book.

Do you guys agree with that? No? Yes?

I do, because I know things.

Yeah, no, no, I'm not saying it as if I know things.

I'm just thinking back to the characters that I've seen that wear an armband like that.

Yeah, well, it definitely is going to cause me to re-look at things.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, I guess so. I did not pick up on that at all.

Yeah, so it was Doku. You see Doku with the red armband and then Rey's got one.

There's lots of people in the Star Wars universe that wear an armband like that.

And whether it's by subconscious or conscious or whatever, each of those people have touched the dark side of The Force somewhat.

So it's kind of like an interesting thing. That's a pretty big, broad stroke across the entire Star Wars universe.

Who would not have touched the dark side in some fashion?

Sure, yes, I agree. But to know that you've touched it enough to need to wear an armband?

Tell me again what the armband does.

Yeah, it was kind of weird to me in the book. I actually thought it was some sort of pain device.

Does it have copper woven into it so it's magnetic?

Is Brett Favre telling you to wear an armband?

Yeah.

So no, so there's a point which I described earlier where Lien,

Sifo-Dyas and Dooku get sucked into the, they're already on this dark,

dark planet, scouting out something that Lien says she wants to go see.

And they get sucked underneath to some blood ritual where the total darkest

of dark characters is going to send them off to some, I don't know.

They end up seeing all these visions of dark things that happen in the future.

And if you remember back, a lot of the visions are what happened in the Clone

Wars, like they talk about specific instances that you'll see later in the

Clone Wars.

Which I would not know, but yeah, sure.

No, I'm talking about stuff that you would see like in Episode two and

episode three, like the big broad stuff.

But anyways, so they start talking about it and whenever they come out of this

whole thing, Sifo-Dyas is in one of his trippy modes where he's seeing stuff

happening in the future.

And they're like, we got to get him back to the ship, get him back to the ship.

They get him back to the ship.

And then Lien is like, look, this is what we've got to do.

It's a cleansing ritual because we've been touched and tainted so much by the

dark side.

They repeat that mantra, the ritual three mantra, which is like the light side, the

dark side, the balance and all that kind of stuff.

And then they tie an armband to their arms in a certain place.

And, and Lien is like, this will protect you, but you've got to keep it underneath

your clothing at all times or what have you.

And that's the same armband that Doku rips off whenever he lands on his home

planet with Genza or to save Genza at the very end of the novel when everything's

gone awry and they're, they're getting beat back.

They've been invaded and all that kind of stuff.

There's somebody that's bleeding.

I don't remember whether it's a big character, whether it's Genza or somebody

is bleeding and they're like, we need an, we need an armband or whatever.

We need something to tie a tourniquet or something like that.

And he rips off his armband and he hands it to him.

And, um, I think it's supposed to be like a symbolic, Oh, wow.

Yeah.

I think you're right.

The story where it's like, Oh, he just took off his armband.

He's going to get tainted now.

I didn't even think about that.

Piece of cloth tied in a certain spot around your arm.

Well, no, so this does not sound very scientific.

Just listen to me.

Okay.

What did you just, did you really just say that?

This does not sound like the kit like to me.

All right.

So basically they, they, they infuse this armband in that ritual.

Like they hold them up and they like, I don't know.

It's in the audio book.

They like hold them up and they like, they have to have their palm up into

the sky when they repeat these words or whatever, the ritual of three.

And then they take the armband and wrap it around their arm.

And I do remember, and well, we'll, we will see in episodes two and three,

if you see an armband at any point.

All right.

From now on, we'll look for armbands.

Yeah.

Yeah, I definitely will.

I, I do have one, one thing I wanted to ask.

I, I wanted to bring up when we covered Phantom Menace, but, um, I

thought, I thought it may be too spoilery, but now this book's already

brought it up or this audio, whatever this is, um, brought it, brought it up.

Um, so in Phantom Menace, um, I, I said, I wanted to ask you back then.

I feel like, um, Qui-Gon was targeted that he was the target, not Anakin that,

um, and this book kind of leads me to it because of Qui-Gon's involvement

with Doku, if he was actually helping, you know, the Emperor and he knew

about Qui-Gon's abilities, could that have been why he was, if he, if my

theory was correct, that he was actually, he was the target, not Anakin.

Um, could that have been?

When you say the target, you mean the target of the whole invasion of Naboo?

No, no.

The target of, um, Maul.

Oh, interesting.

Maul has a choice of Anakin.

Oh, that's an interesting theory.

So you're saying that you think that Maul was not sent down there necessarily

to have anything to do with Anakin.

You think that he was actually there to kill Qui-Gon Jinn?

I do think that, yes.

That's interesting.

And I didn't bring it up then because I didn't have enough information.

Right.

Right.

Um, or at least Jon hadn't seen it, but now that you know about this, that

order and that Qui-Gon is familiar with all this stuff, especially being, you

know, foretelling of the future.

Um, cause he'd spent time, I guess, learning about that stuff, I guess, with Cypher.

William, you need to stop.

I guess with Cypher, you need to read Master and Apprentice.

Okay.

That's yeah.

It's okay.

You're everything you're saying is literally lining up with Master and Apprentice.

Is that a, is that a book?

Yeah.

Claudia Gray.

Really good.

Okay.

Okay.

Oh, she's the one that wrote the trilogy, didn't she?

Um, the Aftermath Trilogy.

Yeah.

You'll, you'll just, I promise you like, like he has foresight and there, yeah.

It's, it's, it's lining up exactly with what you're saying.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, yeah, that's that, that, I mean, cause there was so many times I could just,

you know, obviously we rewatched it and I, Shannon and I watched it again.

Not too long ago.

And she even pointed out my wife that, uh, why does he not go after Anakin?

He doesn't, he stops and takes on Qui-Gon.

Um, so I, I, I think in this, I think we'll get even more evidence as we go on.

I haven't watched the newest season of Clone Wars, um, and don't

remember most of the old, so that'll be, that'll be interesting to watch.

I definitely think there's more to that.

You see the power that Qui-Gon ends up having, the impact.

He would have been the one who would have raised Anakin.

But also, Dooku technically isn't in, or is he in Palpatine's picture at this point?

I don't think he is. I think Palpatine knows about him.

That's why I was going to ask. You're familiar with the timeline.

His sister says, that's why I was going to ask, that's why I brought it up.

His sister said that the cloak figure had already been visiting him ever since he landed back on the planet.

That's a good question. I don't know.

Maul of course is dead by now. It's been three years since Maul died.

Maul's dead. So maybe he is at this point courting Dooku in 25 BBY.

Yeah, to be his next apprentice.

Yeah, I just wonder if...

That's a good question. I'm not sure. We'll have to look at the dates.

Yeah. And especially the attachment in this book leads you to believe that Dooku has with Qui-Gon.

As much as he liked his other apprentice, Qui-Gon was everything to him.

I got that very strong impression from this book.

Yeah, I don't know that Qui-Gon meant...

So from what I got from the audio drama, it was definitely that Rale Averroes was his wingman during the Padawan years.

I think that Kai and Qui-Gon were both very good Padawans and meant something to Dooku.

But just with the way that even after he's a Jedi, Rale comes back and has conversations with Dooku about stuff, at least in this audio drama.

I feel like he got along with Rale better.

I meant as far as intellectually.

Oh yeah, I agree. Rale's the go out drinking and carousing and come home and sleep it off the next morning type person.

You see what happens. You got to read Master and Apprentice. It touches on that very well.

I think it's an interesting theory that Maul was really targeting Qui-Gon because he knew that Qui-Gon could maybe suss stuff out or at least had enough of the dark side.

Or not dark side, had enough of knowledge of the dark side to be able to understand what Dooku may have been scheming up or anything.

And to prepare Anakin for it.

Because remember his training under Dooku was not rigid.

It was to basically, your best defense against the dark side may actually be knowing the dark side.

That's what they all say though. Every single one, that's what they say. I'm just going to dabble a little bit and learn the tricks of the trade.

So that was the whole lead character in this whole audio drama.

This proves the necessity or the importance of diaries.

If just one person had kept a diary and said, I'm going to try the dark side a little bit.

Dooku kept his diary. Dooku kept his journal.

Do not do what I did. Do not do what I did.

And let's be honest, your diary is just going to turn into little scribbles and then be like, oh, you really got to do this.

Do not seek the treasure.

Do not seek the treasure.

Real Avraams is the Jedi of this podcast. I'm sorry. He's perfect.

I love that voice. I love that voice.

I hated that voice. I cannot believe what terrible judgment I'm hearing right now.

Podules the place to be.

Basically, you guys are describing him. It sounds perfect too.

Oh, it is. It's spot on. That's why it just amazes me that in this audio drama, he is so close to Dooku when they are such complete opposites.

Such complete opposites. I think they are very good buds, but as far as being, I think Dooku saw Qui-Gon as being his intellectual equal.

Something he could share deep thoughts with and that kind of stuff.

He makes reference to him being much older than his age, wisdom wise.

Yeah, he does. He makes that quote.

Qui-Gon, why do we park on driveways?

Why do we drive on walkways?

Why do we drive on walkways?

Qui-Gon, help me figure this out.

Rails drunk again. Help me figure this out.

I'm going to try and talk to this snake.

You guys ever heard of Eartha Kitt?

Stop it.

You watch Emperor's New Groove and then go back and listen to What's-Her-Face Talking and tell me that is not the same voice.

The two characters are very similar. I will agree with you. They actually are.

They are both Disney+ properties.

She is one of the biggest reasons I can't wait for you to get into The Clone Wars.

We are on the cusp.

We were talking about that briefly. I'm really looking forward to it.

It's been a long time coming and as Erica said many times, once we hit that stretch

it's going to be wooo that's a lot, but I'm really looking forward to it.

They're 21 minutes each.

Yeah, you're going to enjoy them.

And what do we have to get through to get to that?

We are only four podcasts away from them.

Okay.

And two of those are comic book podcasts, so they're not going to be huge but they're

are going to be interesting.

So, so this, this story is again, it's 90 BBY when, when

the story starts and then the main portion of the story

toward the end of the audio drama is a 25 BBY.

Uh, on our next podcast, podcast number 12, we are reading two

more of the Age of Republic one-offs, Jengafet and Anakin.

And then podcast 13 is?

Episode two.

Episode two.

Thank you.

Thank you, Wade.

The suspense was killing me.

It was, I know.

John was like, it is.

What?

It is.

It's not going to say anything.

The second best Star Wars movie.

Episode three.

No, no, save it.

Save it.

I cannot believe he just said those words.

Save it.

So Episode two is probably is in my, my, my mind personally, the least rewatched

movie, Star Wars movie that I've not rewatched.

God, that is, there are many reasons why that's the case.

I am most of which you have to do with sand, but, but I have to say that

there is one person on this, on this podcast.

That really loves Episode two.

That's because I can, I can ignore bad directing and bad dialogue, but let's

get, let's watch Episode two.

Bad directing, bad dialogue, bad acting.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,

let's save this for podcast 13.

And then John, uh, after that podcast 14, you and I are reading the Mace

Windu series, which is a five comic series arc, which is amazingly good arc.

Very good arc.

See, I bought an iPad pro and that was one of my intents was to start getting

into comic books, so far I've not done it.

Yeah.

Comixology.

Yeah.

So everybody that's listening to this podcast, we make no money whatsoever

from Comixology, but you can, we can, you can go on there and it's, I think

it's five bucks a month, I think four, five bucks a month.

Yeah.

And you can read pretty much any star Wars comic that's come out within

our previous to six months ago.

So whenever comics do really kick back in after the pandemic, um, you'll be able

to go back and, you know, read anything before that, but pretty much everything

is out there right now.

I mean, anything that we're discussing on this podcast is already out there.

Why would the pandemic affect comic book production?

Because the comic book shops are kind of not around right now.

They can't, there's a guy sitting in a room by himself, drawing things.

Well, no, no, no.

So the production, local comics.

So at least in our area, uh, there's not any local comic book shops right now.

And comic books kind of stop shipping and they save the stories for when

they are able to sell them.

And so it's, it's that they're not going to release them digitally is what

you're saying until they ship them out.

Well, no, no, they'll, they, they could release them digitally for like four or

five bucks or something more, but I think that what they're doing is they're

holding back the stories because the stories tie in the movies, the stories

tie into other media, the toys.

Yeah.

Their profit margin on the comic book shops are so much.

Yeah.

So, so, so unfortunately, and this is a big, unfortunate, and please, please

support your local comic book shop whenever, uh, this whole thing, you know,

kicks back, uh, gets over and the economy really, really kicks back in.

But I think really, if you want to get comic books right now, physically, uh,

the only real big places, the only places to get over the big, big, you know,

Midtown comics, places like that, like huge places that do tons of different

orders.

Um, it's unfortunate, you know, it's snakes, but I think also the comic book

industry, like I said, it's peeled back a little bit.

So, uh, whenever everything does really kind of kick back in, uh, support your

local comics shop.

Uh, all right.

So podcast 13 is Episode two and then podcast 14 is the start of the Mace

window series.

So we got, um, we've got some comics coming up.

We got Episode two coming up.

And then of course we got the, uh, Clone Wars doldrums is what I'm going to call

them.

And I shouldn't say doldrums cause they're not,

yeah, that's a really negative comment.

Yeah.

I shouldn't say that.

I, the reason I say doldrums is because it's going to be like a really long

voyage, like in the early 1900s across the Atlantic ocean, because there's

really not much in there besides Clone Wars episodes.

So we're going to get a whole heap and helping of the barfing over the side of

the boat.

Uh, while the, while the, while the boat shifts back and forth.

And I'm not saying they're bad.

I don't want to

do continue this metaphor.

I bought it.

I've already all in.

So I have to keep going with it.

So as we reach the shores of episode three, so, but yes, but, uh, yeah, so I'm

just saying there's going to be, there's gonna be a lot of, a lot of Clone Wars

episodes coming up.

So fortunately, um, not all episodes involve clones or even the war.

They're just complete, you know, side, side, side thing.

So, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's an umbrella title.

There's actually, there's several episodes that don't have Anakin or

Obi-Wan in it at all.

Um, so yeah, those are my favorite.

The interesting thing is the word one appears in the word clone.

So some episodes are just one person sitting there having a monologue.

It's quite a lot.

I'm on it's quite gone.

Talking to each other is wonderful.

Trees. I ate this tree.

30 30 minutes 30 minutes 30 minutes of a really bad accident person trying to do Qui-Gon.

It's not Liam Neeson. OK so next on podcast number 12 we have two comics The Age of Republic Jago Fett and The Age of Republic Anakin Skywalker.

I want to say thanks to William for joining us.

Thank you for having me again. Thank you to John of course for joining again.

Thank you everyone. Thank you to Eartha Kitt.

Wrong lever.

Sorry.

This is the 11 Parsecs podcast episode 11.

If you enjoyed this podcast, please take a moment to subscribe and leave us a good review.

And be sure to check us out at 11 parsecs dot com and discord.

I'm Jonathan Smith with Eric Thompson and the already lost William Buchanan.

Thank you for joining us.