Episode 23: (22 BBY) Clone Wars S1 E12, S1 E13 & Star Wars Visions Episode 1

Let me see this. Explain it in a way that I can understand.

That I'm like, okay, I see how this is tying together.

I get it. Baby likes his bottle. I understand.

But...

Oh, jeez!

In this episode, Jar Jar acts like a blundering moron.

We visit a strange planet with a teeny tiny sun.

And King Julian saves the day with goo.

We'll discuss Clone Wars Episodes 117, 118 and Visions 3 on this edition of the 11 Parsecs Podcast.

Hello and welcome to Podcast number 23 of the 11 Parsecs Podcast.

My name is Eric. I am here with your host, Jon.

Hello!

And we... this hasn't been as big of a gap as our last podcast between Podcast 21 and 22.

But it's been a little bit of a gap. There's been some, you know, some travel, some other stuff going on.

We're getting better.

We are, we are. We're getting... yeah.

He's getting better.

What is that? Is that from the Monty Python?

He's getting better.

He got better. That's what it was. He turned him into a new...

Oh, yeah. Right. There you go. Very good. Very good.

Anyways. Yes. So, yes, we're getting better.

To everyone in England, we're so sorry.

Yeah.

For our terrible English accents.

I hope they do listen. Oh, yeah.

Anyways, that's how we think you, Seth.

Anyways. Brush your teeth.

Anyways. Okay. So, so, episode 23, Hot of the Heels of 22.

So, I planned this episode really badly.

I separated out season 1, episode 12 and episode 13 thinking that they were actually together.

And looking at the titles of the two episodes, I don't know why I thought that.

But episode 12 that we're going to talk about today...

Or, sorry, episode 12 and 13.

Episode 12 is actually the end of the arc that we discussed last podcast on Podcast 22.

So, we're going to get a little bit of the ending of that guy and then some opinions on that.

And then we're also going to talk about the first episode of the next arc in episode 13.

And then also we're throwing a little bit of craziness in here.

So, John and I, we love The Clone Wars.

Clone Wars is a great show.

I have no qualms about it. It really is a really well done show.

But we need a little bit more variety in this Clone Wars kind of stretch, if you will.

We've got seven seasons of Clone Wars that we've got to get through, really.

With some comics and books sprinkled in.

But that's a pretty long stretch, if you understand our podcast.

Because we're trying to do everything in chronological order.

So, doing that means that we're watching probably for like the next 10 podcasts.

Or, let me take that back, probably the next 20 podcasts.

All Clone Wars episodes.

So, we're trying to sprinkle some of the new stuff in.

Some of the Higher Republic stuff.

Some of the stuff that's been released since we kind of came up with the list, etc. etc.

And this week we're going to start sprinkling episodes of the Star Wars Vision series.

Which came out probably about three months ago, I believe.

So, today we're not only going to be reviewing episode 12 and episode 13 of season 1.

But we're also going to be reviewing episode 1 of the Visions series.

So, we're just kind of trying to mix it up a little bit.

Make it a little bit funner for us.

Make sure we're getting on track.

And also make it so that the viewer knows that it's not going to be specifically all about what's going on right now in 32 BBY.

Jon, I just babbled on for a whole bit.

And I know you have a beer ready to go.

What are you drinking tonight?

So, tonight I am enjoying Terminus 10 by...

Do you know that beer?

I do. Well, I'm assuming it's an Atlanta-based brewery.

Wild Heavens.

Wild Heavens.

Wild Heaven.

Yeah, very good. Terminus 10. That's right.

And it's a Belgian Triple. I love Belgian triples.

And, get this, it is aged in bullet bourbon barrels.

Oh, here we go. Here we go.

And where is... They're in Mid-Atlanta, I think? Midtown? Somewhere around there?

They are Avondale Estates, pretty much, you know, Decatur.

Yep, Decatur.

Where I was saying...

So, for those that don't know Atlanta very well, Terminus was the original name of Atlanta.

It was the original name of Atlanta because, hey, guess what? We really don't have any rivers around here.

We really don't have anything around here.

So, whenever Atlanta was kind of up and coming, it was known as a railway depot.

And Terminus was the last stop on the railway in a lot of cases.

And that ended up being in Atlanta.

So, the original name for Atlanta was Terminus.

Hence, when John said, the Terminus, I knew kind of what he was talking about.

It's a cooler name for a city.

It really is.

I kind of wish it was still the name of Atlanta. I really do.

Yes.

Like, I'd be like, I'm from North Terminus.

Like, you know, you're like South Terminus.

But I'm from North Terminus. Like, where it really ends.

Yeah, so I'm drinking an Arches Brewing.

And this is a brand... I shouldn't say a brand new brewery.

I don't really know how long they've been around.

But Arches is a brewery down near the airport in South Atlanta.

And I'm drinking a Winter's Night, which is a Munich Dunkel.

Which I'm kind of excited about.

Really?

Yeah, a little bit different.

I've been trying to branch out a little bit more.

Because me and John, we drink together a lot.

We are very big IPA drinkers.

And I'm trying to get into a little bit more different types of beer.

And who doesn't like the name Dunkel?

I mean, I just want to say, I'm just drinking a Dunkel over here.

Hey man.

That's a nice dark beer on a nice cold night.

Exactly. It's winter. It's cold.

And I had some Guinness last week.

And I was just like, man, I've got to get back into just like heavy beers that sit on my tummy.

And just, you know, I only want to get back into that.

I only want to have one because it's such a heavy beer but it's just such a good like you know just kind of belly-filling beer.

So yeah I only want to have one and the entire nation of Ireland laughs at your face.

Yeah they do, they totally do.

We've learned a deal with the next morning you may not have America.

Well, Guinness is filling but it's not high in alcohol.

Unlike, just so you know, unlike Terminus 10 which is called Terminus 10 because...

Are you 10%?

No, no, no it was aged in 10 year old barrels, bullet bourbon 10 year old barrels.

It actually is...

I thought you were going to tell me like 3.2% or something.

No, no it's 11 and a half.

11 and a half?

And you can taste every delicious percent of that.

That is a legit beer right there.

I'm not kidding.

Wow.

Yes, I've had it before.

I'm going to enjoy this can once we open it.

It is amazing.

I think my goal may be for episode 24 to find that beer because that sounds like a heavy hard-hitting beer.

I like it.

That's amazing.

You say I only want to have one.

You will have only one Terminus 10 and then you're done.

Yeah, yeah that's legit.

That's Golden Monkey territory.

That's up there.

That's good.

I'm actually going to try that.

I do want to still give a shout out to Arches Brewing.

They are not sponsoring this podcast.

They have no clue that I'm saying this but I always support the Atlanta breweries.

Are you ready to pop tops, John?

Please.

Three, two, one.

And take that first sip.

No, take the first pour.

You've got to pour it in a glass.

No, I'm cavemanning it.

This is dark, roasty, and smooth.

I feel like this beer is a culture-defining style that has been brewed for five centuries in Munich.

The classic glag is characterized by its striking dark color, strong malt foundation, and mild roasted finish.

It feels a little bit like it's a light-hearted mouthfeel bringing an element of surprise, offering signature drinkability, and a smooth finish.

Enjoy it fireside on a winter's night.

That's how I'm feeling about this beer.

That's amazing.

You just came up with that on the fly.

It really is.

That's in the bottom of my heart.

One thing I do want to clear up, too, based off the last episode, we got a couple of different emails from people, as we always do.

We talked about the editability of Ewoks.

One of the things that I wanted to make sure that we corrected based on what we said, I said that you probably could not eat Ewoks.

Generally, they're an older population.

The sinew on the muscle is going to be a bit tougher.

Even though, of course, it shows the great scene where they're getting roasted over the fire pit by the Ewoks, that kind of thing.

They would be fine eating an older human, but I think that us eating an older Ewok would be a little bit disgusting.

I think that there's so much used dark meat there.

It's a bit gamey.

Yeah, it's gamey.

You're not going to enjoy it.

I'm not even talking about trying to get rid of the fur and all that other kind of stuff.

But I do want to make sure that we do go back and correct because a user, it looks like Gaviscon16, sent us a note that said specifically about the fact that you could eat the younger Ewoks.

The cuter ones that they see in Return of the Jedi where they're cheering with their little rattles and stuff.

The veal of the Ewoks.

That's exactly what I was going to say.

He brought up a great point.

He said that this is like a lamb.

This is like the smaller, cuter Ewok that probably has the fattier flesh, a little bit more of the cheek.

You could probably use different things in the head, in soups and stuff like that.

I have to give him credit that he is probably correct.

Gaviscon16, congratulations.

You did prove us wrong as people always do on this podcast.

But I do want to say that I do think that you could probably eat the younger Ewoks, like maybe three months and younger, a lot easier than trying to break down the different fatty acids and stuff in the muscles of the older ones.

Good to know.

Yeah.

So let's move on.

So glad we got that cleared away.

And let's talk about the Gungan General, Episode 12.

I'm going to read to you the little summary of the episode.

It's not really the summary.

It's more like the over-talking.

Doku held for ransom after escaping capture by Jedi Knights Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi.

The villainous core Doku fell into the clutches of pirates led by the Brigand Hondo Ohnaka.

Sorry, I butchered that.

Hondo Ohnaka, eager to get custody of Doku, the Republic agreed to pay Hondo a hefty sum in exchange for the Sith Lord.

But Anakin and Obi-Wan had not counted on the treacherous cutting of Ohnaka and his band.

So this is the ender of the two-part arc I think that we reviewed in the last episode.

I liked it up until the George R.R. Point.

I don't know what to say.

What is your overall feelings of this episode?

Like I enjoyed the fact that we saw the Republic engaging with a pirate and trading spice for the life of an enemy.

Which was kind of cool because it does show a little bit of the Rogue One-ish darker side of the Republic that they're willing to go to, you know, gray areas to get people.

They're willing to negotiate in good faith.

I don't know if that's a gray area.

They're trading to get a high value target.

Agreed, but they're trading spice.

Oh, I see what you're saying.

So it's a little bit Ronald Reagan-y.

It's a little bit like 80s.

We're on contrast now.

Yeah, I'm not going full on Iran-contra, but I'm going a little bit where like...

The government is engaging in something that they clearly know is illegal.

So Spice is illegal? I need a refresher on this. Spice is illegal in the Republic?

Maybe I'm Dune-headed right now. I think that it is. I think that it's looked upon as a drug that the Republic would not want to engage in trading in.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Spice is not as big of a deal as I think it is.

The thought of all these clone troopers hauling around a trailer full of cocaine does put it into a different context.

It does. It totally does. And the fact that Hondo's second in command, his lieutenant, comes up with this kind of devious plan to backstab the boss and go grab the Spice or grab whatever the shipment is.

I think he knows it's Spice at this point. To go grab the shipment that's flying in, take that out of the equation, and then he doesn't really care.

He's got the Spice to haul off and do whatever he wants with. And of course that's where the episode goes kind of awry, is where they try to take it, etc. etc.

Yeah, and back to your point about Jar Jar. You could see that coming a mile away, right?

I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't.

Jar Jar's involved. What do you think is going to happen?

I know. So two things with Jar Jar in this episode. Number one, I did not expect him in this episode.

I really expected them to send two senators down there, maybe even pod mates.

Like somebody that would know what's going on with the situation. I just felt that the first two episodes of this arc were very well...

I don't want to say well written because I'm not saying that this one wasn't well written, but I'm saying that they were very well cast with fake characters.

They were very like... It was very on the up and up where you're just kind of like, oh, this is pretty good. This is pretty good. A little intrigue.

You know, this kind of thing. And then I did not expect Jar Jar to show up. And then also Jar Jar is not in the normal Jar Jar voice, which threw me even more.

Did that bother you at all?

Yeah, of course. A little bit. Yeah.

Yeah. It was a very... It wasn't even somebody like trying to do... Trying to imitate the original Jar Jar.

Like it was really weird. Like it was just a weird voice, which threw me even more.

And I don't... I enjoyed the overall story arc of the episode and I enjoyed the ending of the episode.

I'm not sure I enjoyed the whole Jar Jar element at all. And I'm not saying that just because it's Jar Jar.

I'm saying it just because it just didn't fit into the episode.

It was very... I don't know. It was just very weird to see him in this. I don't know. I just didn't expect it. I didn't like it. I didn't...

The cynical part of me would say that when he's there, it's like the writer has said, you know what? I don't know. Throw Jar Jar in there.

Yeah, exactly. I told you that.

Or I wonder if there's like a Jar Jar requirement. Like they have to have X number of episodes per season where Jar Jar shows up.

And just to get their Jar Jar fill. Like it was really weird. Like I just didn't...

Because we've already seen him in two episodes so far in season one. And I just... I didn't feel like it was needed. Like it was just like...

I think he's a beloved character. You know, it's not a quota.

You could send somebody mysterious. Somebody that you're just like, oh, that person could play something later on because we're in season one of this freaking thing.

You know, somebody that could play a part later on and not Jar Jar. Like it was just... Like he didn't have anything like...

He had the comical, you know, bits where he would, you know, screw things up that actually helped everybody.

You know, I get all that. I'm fine with that. But I don't know. It just seemed weird to me.

No, I'm never going to enjoy those parts. You just kind of look past it. Again, we are not the target audience.

Agreed. And also, too, I want to bring up the pole vaulting scene. Do you remember that? Like that was a very weird scene to me.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That was weird. It was weird. It was... So you've got three very powerful, powerful Jedi all chained together by this...

And I don't know what material this thing is. Like what chains three huge Jedi, like pretty much three of the most powerful Jedi in the universe,

together to where they can't use any type of, you know, I don't know. They didn't explain it in the episode.

I don't know what this magic Wonder Woman whip thing is that they've chained them up in.

But they've all got a pole vault and get over this weird wall thing. And yeah, that was kind of odd, too.

I mean, you know, not my episode, but not bad. You know what I mean? Like, where were you?

Overall fine. It was... Cry me from wrong, but the last episode ended with them thinking that they had outwitted the bad guys trying to drug them. Right?

That they swapped cups. You remember that?

Yeah, totally. Yeah.

And yet they still got knocked out.

Yeah, they got princess brided. And they got knocked out.

So that was a surprise.

Okay, I'll give you that. I agree with that. Because at the end of the episode, you think they got the better of everybody.

But then the beginning of this episode, you're like, no, they didn't. Yeah, I never thought about that. But I think you're right.

So that was good. That was good. There were other parts that I didn't care so much for.

Little things like, I think it's Doku force floats a knife into the door lock.

Yes, he does.

And the other Jedi or the Jedi are like, very impressive. Seriously, we've seen way cooler stuff through The Force.

Remember, both of these guys fought Doku in Episode two at the end of it, right?

Yeah, so.

So like, they know what he can throw around. He threw that big old pillar thing.

But it's a knife. It's a little knife and he floated it across the hallway.

Yoda had to battle him with, like, throw that big old, like, column thing at Yoda.

Column thing, right? X-Wings. I mean, come on.

That's what I'm saying. Like, what's with the knife? Like, what's special?

Like, is it so small that you're like, oh, yeah, maybe it's the Del-

it's the finer, you know, the fine movements to pick a lock with it.

Maybe that. OK, I can understand that. That's not how it's portrayed, but OK, fine.

I do. I do have in my notes that there was one line that I really loved from Yoda.

They're all chained together by this, again, the really weird thing that I don't understand

why this thing isn't proliferating all around the galaxy to stop Jedi.

But it's like this rope thing that chains them up together.

They can't use their powers or kind of can't use their powers.

But he says, I'd kill you both right now if I didn't have to drag your bodies,

which was pretty darn good line. That's pretty dark.

It was. It was pretty dark. Like, it's just almost like I know I can do this.

I just don't want to drag you around. Like, I get it.

And that was that was that was pretty cool.

That was my favorite part of the episode.

What a bad guy, what a proper evil guy would say. Yeah, totally agree.

All right. So let's move on. Well, should I ask you how this I'm going to ask you a score one through 100 for this arc?

I'm not going to ask you about this episode because this episode was a little bit an aberration

because I do remember I kind of enjoyed the last two episodes.

I thought they were pretty good before this one. I love it.

And what do you what are you giving this arc?

What do you what do this overall story of a Doku getting captured,

them going through the cave, fighting people in the cave, looking for, you know, Doku whenever he was running through everything in the last episode?

Like, where are you? Where are you sitting with this arc compared to the rest of the arcs we've seen in Clone Wars specifically?

So I'm actually having a bit of a problem because in the past I've readied so many things as an 85 or thereabouts.

And I think that as we do more of these, I want to to adjust that scale.

That what was an 85 before going forward for me is more like a...

We're maturing. We're maturing. On this adventure, on this journey, we are maturing.

Yeah, 85 is kind of high because it doesn't give me a lot of room above that.

This I want to say is like an 82 in the new scale because and only really for for the the the concepts that it plays with.

As you say, trading spice, the the the the the betrayals that we see, you know, the bad guys, you expect that kind of stuff.

So also playing with the the the knowledge that if they trade Doku to the to the the who?

No, the pirates trade Doku to the I'm blanking on the name of the bad guys.

The Separatists. No, not the Separatists. Doku. Separatists.

Oh, yeah, you're right. You're right. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. Yeah. The Trade Federation. Yeah, you're right.

Trade Federation. OK. So also it plays with the the idea of if the pirates, you know, try to trade Doku back to the Trade Federation, they're just going to kill him.

They're just going to show up and kill him. Right. They didn't really think this part through.

They have to sell him to the Republic because the Republic is the only entity that will sell him to the Republic.

Because the Republic is the only entity that will deal fairly.

Well, what's what's interesting about that point, though, is that it's Hondo that knows that everybody else is really ready to trade him back.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So Hondo, I think, is more the pinpoint there.

The the main middleman that actually has the intelligence to say, you know, we can't do that. Right.

And in the end, as I think it's open, one points out, you know, well, now he knows where you are.

And speaking of which, when Doku was getting away, you know that that, you know, killing that dude to escape, that was.

Yes, that was again, dark, dark, satisfying, very satisfying.

So so you also bring up a good point, too, in the ending, though, where this was like one of those one of those endings where it's it's very it's unsatisfying, but it's unsatisfying in a good way.

That sounds really weird because the name, you know, the actual definition of unsatisfying.

But like there's no real ending like they get, they just decide to part ways.

And I really agree with you that Obi-Wan saying, hey, look, Doku is not as nice as us.

You know, like you're screwed. You better get moving.

You know, like you better like start packing now and get out of town.

What was was he trying to help? Was he trying to help the guy out or was he basically gloating a little bit?

No, I think both. I think both of that.

It can be both. Yeah, it can be both.

I think I think that he was kind of saying, like, we're agreeing not to kill you. We're letting you go.

We also know that you owe us a little bit of something like there's a little bit of debt here because I'm letting you go.

But we also want you to know that you're screwed. You better get moving.

Like, like, as in, like, we're going to keep you as like an I don't want to say an agent, like, but we're going to keep you as in like I'm keeping you around because I know that you may be valuable later.

I don't know how that's going to happen, but I know you're going to be valuable later.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.

So it was yeah. Overall, it was good.

I'm we're converging. I think I think as we mature in our scores, we're converging.

I'm I'm going to probably go maybe high 70s, like a 77 78 wasn't bad by any means.

It was it was a good fun arc to watch.

And I enjoyed the Hondo introduction, too.

But I would say that it was like mind blowing by any means, either.

So, yeah, so I think if you take our average, we're about 80, which is probably where we're at.

We should be for this kind of episode.

All right, let's move on Jedi Crash and this is this is something that I wanted to talk about.

This is episode 13 Jedi Crash.

The Republic fleet is on the defense and pushed to the brink as war rages in much of the contested out of rim territories.

Chaos and fear mount as the Separatist army wages an epic battle against heavily outnumbered Republic ships and the reaches of the Quell system.

Anakin Skywalker and his Padawan Ahsoka race across the galaxy to aid Jedi Knight Aya Sakura

who is in the midst of a fight for her life as the sinister droid army closes in.

So the director of this was Rob Coleman and the writer was Katie Lucas.

Katie Lucas is George Lucas's daughter.

She wrote this and I thought okay, well, maybe this was like a one-off that she wrote.

No, she wrote a lot of Clone Wars. Oh, I did not know that. I did not know this either.

This is this is one of the facts that as I was researching this episode, I did not know.

So yeah, Katie Lucas wrote and I'm just guessing because I'm not looking at the webpage right now,

but she wrote probably about I think 10 to 12 episodes of Clone Wars as a whole over all the seasons and this was I

think the first one that she wrote that aired and I was kind of impressed.

Like I was like, that's pretty cool.

Like not only are you getting direction from dad if you probably heard the stories or these stories from multiple times, but you know not

It was well done. Like I thought it was really good.

I think on this episode for me, not only was the story pretty decent, but also the graphics

I felt like took like an upgrade and I don't know what if it was like an upgrade in the software.

I don't know if it was an upgrade in the time spent specifically working on this episode or what,

but I felt like the graphics for this specific episode 13 were great.

I mean, they were really really good compared to other episodes and I don't know what changed.

I don't know what the variable was that moved that up on the barometer.

But yeah, it was pretty good. Like I thought I thought it was the overall

aesthetics of the episode were pretty good or the art. Yeah.

Like what? Yeah, so the the Doku arc is done.

We've now got Anakin and Ahsoka going to help Aya Sekira, who is the hot French Jedi Knight, which we've talked about before.

It's a it's a neat scene with Anakin running through the cruiser

trying to grab her and bring her off the ship, try to rescue her and

he gets hurt and the kind of gist of the episode is that Anakin is now incapacitated.

We've got to figure out a way to number one get him healed and number two,

Aya, Sekira and also Ahsoka kind of have like a little bit of a bonding moment to like as Jedi and Padawan,

which is interesting. I mean, I don't know. I thought it was pretty good. So what do you think? This was a very

very let's land on a planet and film most of the episode on the planet type episode.

No, I enjoyed it very much.

I thought it was a pretty good episode. Good concepts explored. The concept of you have to do what's right for the group.

You know, the whole Vulcan needs are above the many thing. Don't be selfish.

I think at one point, you know, it's the idea that fear of loss leads to evil and we see that right with episode

three

coming up.

Yep, coming up. Coming up, Jon. Coming up. Coming up. Coming soon. That entire concept of you can't get attached and yet

we've discussed that before. It's kind of weird, right? You have to. Yeah. Right. Otherwise you would care.

They talk about it this episode. It's really, really well done because I think that like

you're taught or the Padawans are taught and that's kind of like the mirror is the viewer versus the Padawan.

You're taught not to have attachments and the so good brings up a very good point.

She's like, how on earth are we not supposed to have attachments to somebody that has been teaching us?

Almost as a father figure. And this goes back to to Master and Apprentice book. Claudia Gray.

Like this goes back to all this. Like, like you, you are going to have an affinity for your teacher because and I'm not

saying it's a love thing or maybe it is a love thing. Like it's not necessarily a romantic thing, but it's it's it's your

father figure. It's a person that's teaching you for this, you know, small component of your life, what to do and how to do it.

And you know, how do you not have that relationship with it?

And I think it's so good as a really good job talking to build the episode, just being like, how am I not supposed to feel

emotion for this person? And yeah, I know our Jedi ways are supposed to be like that, but then as a curious

character is also kind of like you can tell she's like, like, how do you say it's like a hidden secret in the Jedi

world? Like, yeah, you're not supposed to have any attachments whatsoever. But yeah, we all do like like

we like I had my first man. Yeah, yeah, I looked at him as a father figure. And you know, yeah,

that's fair. If you know, you know, it's going to happen. It's going to happen due to human nature anyway, but you still

preach the the ideal the absolute, you know, no attachments. But as as we've said, if you truly had no, no

affinities, no attachments, you would be a monster. You'd be totally what I mean, you'd be a robot.

You'd be Darth Vader. Yeah. Okay, well, we'll talk about it. I'm just saying like, like, once you figure out

that you don't need those attachments, you change demeanor, and you become something different. And I'm

in total agreement with you. I think even Anakin at this point, and that's what's really cool about this

series is you're seeing Anakin not in that form, you're seeing him in the the the form that he's in.

The fatherly form, honestly, with Ahsoka, like almost the like, you know, the Snips I'm trying to teach you stuff that's going to save your life type situations.

And I think that that's pretty good.

I mean, I don't know.

I this one's I find that a lot of episodes for these like beginning episodes or the setup episodes, maybe in like a two or three episode arc are let's crash you into a new planet.

Look at the new.

Yeah, like I don't know.

I'm not ready to say it's a trope, but I'm just saying like the pattern is definitely crash.

You crash you into a new planet, show you the dangers of that planet that you've never seen, which are really cool because they're specific to that planet, which I like.

I enjoy that kind of stuff, honestly, and then show how you adapt and get out of it.

Yeah, survival, little survival mini survival arc.

Yeah, we had this we had this at the beginning of the last arc where they crashed on that planet and they got found in the cave and they're chasing Doku and the the I forget the name of the animal, but the the gun dark, dark in the cave, you know, like all this other stuff.

You're like, oh, we must be on this planet because we've got dark, you know, so it's like it's like that kind of.

Same pattern going on, but I don't I don't not like the pattern, you know, like, no, no, it's it's it's almost like you're introducing me to somewhere new and somewhere new in this universe that I don't know about.

New and there's a lot of stakes.

There's a lot of people there.

There are lemur people.

Speaking of of an untenable philosophies, the lemur people, the mongoons, they have an impossible philosophy.

You cannot follow.

Yeah, they do.

And they hope that they would be on some little outcast planet that nobody would care about.

But you'd have to be completely isolated.

You yeah, but you'd have to have total nonviolence.

You'd have to be by yourself.

I agree. I totally agree with that.

And I think that maybe that's the the point of the sun being the guy that is the healer, as he realizes.

And, you know, I don't know the rest of the arc.

I haven't watched it yet.

But even then, just just so we know, even then, right, you have one one lemur dude decide you're not going to fight back, really?

You know, OK, yes, I'm your king now.

Yeah. Punch you in the face.

It's very funny because it's so similar to the what is the the movie with the penguins?

It's yeah, Madagascar.

Yeah, exactly what I was thinking of where you have the lemur king and then you have like it like it's so reminds me every time I saw that guy, I was like, oh, it's the lemur king from Madagascar.

Now that came first, right, because that's that's pretty far ago.

That's a good question.

We'd have to go back and look.

Julian, the lemur king.

If only if only we could stop time.

So I was just visited by Ming of the future and they told me that Madagascar was filmed in 2005.

This episode of Clone Wars was filmed in 2008.

So, wow, I honestly.

Total rip off.

I didn't.

Yeah, it really did.

I thought it might be the reverse.

I thought, oh, Madagascar was like, hey, it's pretty cool.

George team, Julian.

All right, here we go.

Yeah, I am.

I'm team Julian on this now.

Like, that's that's a very funny.

I never.

Yeah, I don't know.

That's very weird.

I really thought I was going to do the reverse.

I really did.

I really did.

I thought, oh, because your beloved Star Wars can't just saying like it would be a big deal to say, hey, I'm going to take something cute.

And why?

And I'm not.

These aren't lemurs.

These are on some other monkeys.

They're monkeys.

Yeah, they're monkeys.

Yeah, I'm on goose monkeys.

Yeah.

Anyways.

Anyway.

OK, yeah.

So these an episode.

I don't know.

I don't know.

This one's not like fine for the next one.

Yeah, I mean, I get that because you crow guy was cool.

You know, that was cool.

Crow, crow guy with the muscles was pretty cool.

You got to admit the muscles, the crow guy, the guy that Rex is defending Anakin while he sleeps and the crow.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

OK, bless out of the reeds and starts like chasing him down and stuff.

That was pretty cool.

I enjoyed that part.

Yes, but that's that's probably the highlight of the episode for me personally.

Well, and of course, at the end we get the magic goo.

Right.

Oh, yes.

I forgot about that.

There's always magic goo.

There's always magic goo.

That's a good.

That's a good.

Yeah.

Like the smaller, more non-technical societies on these planets always have a magic goo.

You're right.

Well, it's either that or the episode drags on while he's in the ICU for several months.

No, it's magic goo.

Yeah, it's magic goo.

You fix your head up.

And there's a point of the episode, too, that I don't know why I remember this, but they throw the magic goo in a handkerchief and put it over his face.

Like, that's the one thing that they do.

It's really weird.

Like I was I was like, his face isn't hurt.

He's talking to everybody.

He's cool with the face part.

But they're like literally like, shut up, dude.

Just like they throw the goo over his face.

I'm like, all right, whatever.

Yeah, the concept of the idea that there's magical goo that will heal you.

I'm fine with that.

But the fact that you apply it only to the face.

Give me a break.

Well, I'm just saying I'm just saying it's Anakin Skywalker.

It's a guy that's going to end up being one of the most powerful beings in the universe.

And this is like your little side diss to him is you're just like, yeah, I'm going to put this goo cloth on your face first

before I put it on anything that's wounded on you.

And I just thought it was cool, a little slight by the pacifist healer.

I didn't pick up on that, but now I got to watch that again because I want to see that.

Yeah, it was it was it was a good little thing.

All right. This episode, I'm going 70 out of 100.

Like I'm not.

I'm not impressed by it. It was ok. It wasn't great.

In my new scale, I'd say...

Yeah, definitely go new scale from here on out.

I'm in the high 70s.

Ok, ok. Yeah, so we're... ok.

We're closer.

Again, I like the concept. I like playing with the concepts of...

Here's a completely pacifist society.

And it makes me think about that. I like that.

You get points for that.

Ok, ok, ok.

Oh, and I do have to say, earlier on...

Flashback to... Oh gosh, which movie was it?

When Han was telling Leia...

Oh, maybe it was Empire when they were trying to escape from the Star Destroyers.

He says, without precise calculations, you know, you could fly right through a star in hyperspace.

That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's what happens to them!

Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy.

Without precise calculations, we'd fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and end your trip real quick, wouldn't we?

By the way, that sequence...

It's a solid 80 now because I forgot about that sequence.

Where they're in the docking bay of the big ship and the light speed is about to engage.

And they have to, like, get out of the bay of the ship.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, because it's going to screw the ship up.

That was nice.

Which is the whole basis for... What is it? Episode 8?

Or the whole maneuver?

I mean, it's like, yeah, you can't hold on to a ship that's about to enter hyperspace or it's going to rip through you.

Why you gotta bring that up?

Why you gotta bring that up?

We'll talk about it later.

Why you gotta bring that up?

We'll talk about it later. We'll talk about it in like 2027.

We'll talk about it later, John.

Just piss on my Christmas tree, why don't you?

Okay, okay.

So, yeah, that was good.

And also, too, if you remember, like, in Rogue One where the shuttle blasts down and then blasts off.

It felt very reminiscent of that also, like, which was really cool in my opinion.

Anyways.

Other thing I wanted to cover really briefly.

I don't know if you know this, but do you remember what?

No, say go ahead.

Do you know...

Go ahead, John.

Are you familiar with Star Trek Voyager?

Star Trek Voyager? I never watched Star Trek Voyager.

Really? You don't know the opening credits at all?

Remind me.

Okay, so there's one scene in the opening credits.

There's one scene in the opening credits where the ship is flying over like this ice ring on a planet.

No, I don't know.

Okay, you have to go see that because I never paid attention to it, but there was this YouTube video that pointed out that based on what they show, you can calculate just how big that planet is.

And it's tiny.

It's like not much bigger than the ship itself.

It's an impossible planet.

It's a fascinating thing.

So likewise, in this episode, the ship actually...

It sounds like you have a really concrete definition of an impossible planet.

What is an impossible planet?

A planet that looks like Saturn but is the size of Manhattan?

Yeah.

And it's impossible physics-wise because...

It just wouldn't be able to hold the atmosphere.

It's not big enough to have enough gravity.

No gravity pull.

It's extremely dense and therefore a black hole.

So anyway, in this episode, the ship actually goes behind the star in that system as they manage to...

It loops through.

And based on that, you could actually calculate the size of the star based on how the ship goes behind it and how long it takes and all that.

It's really not big.

It's a tiny, tiny star.

Which is the center of the universe too in this episode.

So we're getting really geeky here, but I like it.

So basically we're saying that...

It bothers me.

That the star is so small that based on your calculation with this planet from Star Trek Voyager, I think is what you said?

Yes.

It would not be able to hold...

Could not sustain fusion.

It could not sustain fusion or the universe that's around it, the galaxy that's around it.

Yeah, I agree.

That's cool.

I like that.

I like that observation.

Thank you very much.

I'm trying to go back in my mind and think of that scene.

And I do remember how, I think it was Ahsoka that was piloting it at that point.

It comes out of hyperspace and then they kind of just dip around and almost take the little gravity ring around the star.

And it's not far.

I think the whole scene literally shows them go around one way and then back out the other.

They just kind of pan across the star, which is probably where you're coming from on the size of the star.

Tiny.

We'll contact some of our physics professors that we know at Harvard and MIT and ask them specifically.

Dr. Dugan, I think I'm going to contact him and maybe we'll have a response in the next episode.

He's probably already investigated this problem.

I'm sure he has.

I'm sure there's probably like a university mail chain or something going around specifically about Star Wars.

Maybe a dissertation or two.

Episode 1, season 1, episode 13, a specific planet that happened in minute 13.

Impossible star!

Minute 13 in 2008.

There was a copy of Madagascar from 2005.

Yes, there probably is.

They are well aware of it, but we'll definitely get in contact and see what they say.

OK, let's move on.

Let's move on to the duel.

So this is my exciting part for me because I do love The Clone Wars episodes.

I do love talking about them.

They are all new to me, so I'm very excited about them.

That being said, we're jumping forward to 2021.

We're looking at the duel, which is the first episode of Star Wars.

Takenobu Mizuno was a Jedi Padawan and is also knowns as Snips.

I'm not going to lie, I watched a couple of these when they came out.

I knew what was going on and you were cold turkey.

I had no idea.

I'm so happy.

I'm not going to lie, I had no idea.

going to be like my Hawaii school academia type stuff.

Some of them are going to be really different anime that I've never seen before.

So the art styles are completely different from episode to episode.

And honestly, too, I think this may be like a what if type situation for Marvel

where I mean, this one doesn't really affect Canon per se, and I don't think any of the

others are probably they're probably all serialized stories that happen outside of

Canon, but nothing in here would be part of Canon.

You know what I mean?

Like it's more like a just a fun type series.

Well, okay, so I'm gonna get off track of where I was going with this and say briefly

that one of the things I really did like about this episode is that it is a tiny

self-contained standalone story.

I totally agree.

That you have no idea what anybody is in this story.

Yeah.

Like you can kind of tell where it fits in on the timeline based on the stormtroopers,

but that's it.

That's all you got.

And I love that.

I totally agree with you.

I love that part.

Actually, I, yeah, I didn't really think about that.

I thought the fact that we have Sith running around meant that it was long, long ago.

This is where that's the whole key to my point earlier that I think this is a non

Canon.

You can't take this as a default because specifically they mentioned that the

clone troopers are out of the war.

Therefore they have nothing to kind of do.

You know what I mean?

So they're raiding camps and that kind of stuff.

Okay.

Wow.

I missed that part.

All right.

Yeah.

The city, the guy that helps heal the droid or fix the droid specifically says that

he says that these are, yeah, these are raiders that are here because they have

nothing else to go to because the war is winding down, etc.

That could be any war.

That could be any war in history.

It's clones though.

So I, yeah, I don't know.

I mean, yeah, they're in clone armor.

I don't know.

But then you get this.

That's what I'm saying.

I didn't really pick up on that.

They are in clone armor and yet I saw, oh, these are a bunch of Sith.

So this is a long time ago.

Well, so that's kind of the thing too, is that you got, and that's one of the neat

things that I think that is one of the reasons you can't take this as canon is

that, so the rule of two, so that you got, oh my gosh, you got a Sith.

Oh my God, you got two.

Like, so it's like a weird Ronin type situation, which is what they're gunning

for.

I mean, that's the whole point of it is that you're like, this guy's a, this

guy's got a dark blade too.

And he, but he even says, I'm not necessarily, I'm not necessarily a force

user, although he does use The Force like during the fights.

So it's kind of a weird, you don't know where these guys are from.

I mean, they're untrained, you know what I mean?

I guess, I guess that's what we're supposed to think is that both of them

are kind of like untrained.

Oh yeah.

Rogue agents.

Uh, and the whole thing about there, there are always two and only two that was

always so limiting, you know, when he shows his crystals, the, the, the line of

crystals in his coat, there's tons of them running around.

Yeah.

So, so, so, but, but, but one thing that I think you gotta, I think you gotta

remember, and even whenever we were reading, it wasn't Master and Apprentice.

Oh, the Count Dooku audio book that we listened to, they talk about how there

are other people out there that are these Ronin like warriors.

There are these people that utilize lightsabers can kind of use The Force,

but they're not the two.

They're not the, they're not the master and the apprentice.

You know what I mean?

It's like, this is the, this is the selection of people you're going to

draw from when you're, when you're drawing.

These are the guys that have minimal force use.

They can use some things, but it's not like they're Jedi.

They haven't been trained in the ways.

I'm trying to remember the name of the guy from the Doku Jedi Lost audiobook.

There was a guy that they talk about.

He wasn't a Jedi per se.

He was evil, but he could use The Force a little bit.

He was force sensitive, but not powerful.

He was force sensitive enough.

So those people exist out there.

It's neat seeing and I totally agree with you.

That's one of the best parts of this episode.

We're spoiler full at this point because it's been out for four or five months.

The best part of this episode definitely is you're like, oh my gosh, there's two.

There's two of them.

They're fighting each other.

Red blades.

It's awesome.

No, no, no.

Absolutely.

And then he pulls the jacket and you're like, oh, that's awesome.

That was by far.

The thing I enjoyed most of all was that this was not a Sith fighting a Jedi or a Jedi fighting a Sith.

This is, I mean, because, you know, bad guys are going to fight each other.

We've seen that time and again.

So it was nice to have that as a contrast to the light versus dark, good versus evil classic.

Now, let me get back to where I was initially going.

And I was trying to decide, I've been trying to decide, which one to say first.

Do I say I appreciate the art first or do I say I'm not a big fan of anime?

I think you should say the latter first.

I'm not a big fan of anime.

Because, yeah, because that premises the art.

But I appreciate the art.

Yeah, agreed.

And that's fine.

You got to appreciate the art.

The art is undeniable.

OK, so everybody's clear on that.

The art is great.

I was thrown by the setting, which to me, again, played into this is a long, long time ago.

Because, you know, it's that weird thing in the Star Wars universe where you have, you know, primitive conditions and yet lightsabers and Dark Troopers.

So what's amazing to me is that I totally thought about that when I watched this episode originally.

And I was like, who lives in this kind of like cultured, like specific cultured, low tech type situation?

But do you remember the.

And yeah, we're going to have Mando spoilers, but that's part of it.

The episode in the Mando, though, where they attack with Ahsoka and the Mando attack the.

What was her name?

The bow wielding girl.

What was her name?

They attack.

It's very it's very Asian centric where you have like the bridge, the crosses and they fight.

Ahsoka fights her on the bridge.

In the in the in the Koi Garb.

Yes, the Koi Garb.

Exactly.

It's that episode.

But like if you look at the aesthetics of that Community, it's pretty close to this.

It's not as basic.

It's not as like that.

Well, but it's still it's that weird.

That's the weird Star Wars, the sort of gritty Tatooine kind of, you know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like your this is below that.

This is your point.

Your point is the host.

But also there's no like big wall around the city or anything.

So if you take away the wall aesthetic from The Mandalorian episode and this put a city down here, it does it not look like the one here?

No, they I mean, come on.

They clearly went for the I'm trying to think of the is it Shogun architecture?

Japanese.

Yeah, that's exactly right.

Yeah.

So that that was again, that was an artistic choice.

And I get it.

Well, I think I think it was an artistic choice.

I think it's an artistic choice to show the difference in the fact that because if one of my favorite kind of like many scenes in that episode was where you have this huge roving troop carrier that blasts through all the huts.

At the very beginning, and it almost leans a little bit because it might follow the huts and you're in your in your mind.

You're sitting there thinking, oh, don't fall in the huts like that.

You don't talk about the very beginning where the troops come in.

Yeah, that big carrier like rushes through a street that it shows a very well drawn.

It rushes through a street of these huts.

And you're like, oh, my God, this is like such a like or at least me.

I was like, oh, this is such a like a weird thing in my brain, because I'm sitting there thinking, oh, these are these huts that I think from from like 1200 to 1300 Japan coupled with this massive thing that's thousands of years in the future that's carrying all these different, you know, you know, clone warriors.

And that that's a very jarring juxtaposition.

Yeah, it was meant to be a jarring juxtaposition.

It was it totally was.

That's where that's where I'm kind of like.

Like, these people must be choosing to live like this.

Exactly.

That's kind of what I was getting at.

They're choosing to live like this.

And then also choosing to live with five guards that have all sorts of weaponry of current condition.

You know what I mean?

Like, like the you have you have the five, six guards, I think, that we're defending, like the little boy that leads the town.

You know, he does his hand motion and the assassins drop or the attackers drop the first wave of attackers drop based on the assassins, I guess, or the guardians that live in town.

And they're all using completely current weaponry.

Right.

Yeah. So so it's a very weird aesthetic to see the the Jedi or the sorry, the what do you call it?

The Rebel Umbrella Girl.

But you have to understand, Eric, you have to understand.

So when I saw for the first time Darth Maul in Episode 1, right, where he ignites his

lightsaber and then he ignites a second lightsaber, right?

It was like you're upping the ante.

That's what always has to happen.

You got to up the ante.

So as soon as I saw, you know, clothes drying rack girl, she ignites like 10 lightsabers.

It's like, give me a freaking break.

I mean, that's what you came up with.

So so to be fair, and I'm trying to remember, oh, Shadow, the name of the movie Shadow.

I watched a movie about two years ago called Shadow, which is literally they use an umbrella

as one of the main weapons and it's a bladed umbrella.

And there's lots of it's like a small army and they Trojan horse kind of into this city

and they start like beating people pretty much with these umbrellas that are like bladed.

And I remember looking at the front of it and being like, all right, I got to see how

this works because it just doesn't sound like it can work.

They made it work.

And it was a martial arts style that I was kind of like, okay, it's pretty cool.

I think they were trying to capitalize on that.

To me, the first thing that pops out is I'm like, wait, how do you have eight lightsabers?

Like, how does this work?

Like, how do you it's supposed to be like this monumental task for you to build one

lightsaber.

You know what I mean?

Right.

Like, how do you have how do you have eight?

Like, to me, she pulls the she pulls her main lightsaber out of the hilt out of the pole

part of the umbrella thing.

I took that to mean and it kind of deactivates.

I took that to mean that they're not really lightsabers.

They're channelers.

They're tubes.

Well, she destroys stuff with them though.

Like she has a bunch of stuff to put on her.

They're the lightsaber blades, but it's the lightsaber in the shaft that is powering.

Okay, so you're thinking each of these different umbrella blades is like one eighth of a regular

lightsaber.

I can buy that.

Something like that.

Yeah, I can buy that.

I can buy that.

Yeah.

Okay.

I'll buy that.

The initial when she lights it up feels like there's like eight lightsabers hanging down.

And I was just kind of like, what?

That's what it's meant to be.

And I see you have the same sort of reaction that I do.

It's like, give me a break.

You had to come up with something.

Well, I don't know if it was like give me a break.

Like I'm just kind of like, okay, this is cool.

Like the Beckman was like-

No, it's not cool.

No, see, I thought it was cool.

I was like, okay.

And maybe I've seen lower umbrella warfare than you have, John.

But I'm just saying-

Perhaps so, but you can't deny the vulnerability of this intersection.

You may have a whirling blade of death, but it is a donut of death, my friend.

Because there's a hole in the center.

There's a hole in the center.

Why don't you just shoot through that?

They could have took that thing out and sold it, my friend.

Sold it for your life.

Yeah, I don't know.

I mean, it was a neat take on it, and I enjoyed the take on it.

Do I want to see other Jedi plop into the universe with umbrella blades?

No, I do not.

No, they're going to have to come up with like a dodecahedron of lightsabers next.

But that being said, I sent you, was it, oh man, it may have been even the last Christmas.

I sent you the Jedi lightsaber book, which has a couple of really good lightsabers in

there.

Yes, I have it.

I can see it.

I've seen it in a couple of episodes.

Maybe we'll point out some stuff in some post or a Discord.

If you haven't joined our Discord, feel free to go join it.

We'll post a link in the show notes.

Maybe we'll post some stuff in the Discord about the different lightsaber shapes and

stuff because there's some in there that I'm just kind of like, okay, so you're upping

the anti-thing.

Kylo's lightsaber, by far, making it look like Excalibur on the sides.

Right.

Yeah, I get it.

I totally get that part.

There's a couple High Republic ones that I'm just kind of like, wait, what?

This happened like 300 years before Star Wars and Luke and them are still dealing with normal

lightsabers?

There were some designs in there that I'm just like, what is this?

This is like, yeah, you got the Seven Sisters from the Sith.

We're about to encounter a whole bunch of different lightsabers.

Okay, so we're going to have a subsection of this podcast that is just Jon describing

lightsabers from here on out because I'm thinking in my head, there's like three or four coming

up that you're just going to be like, what?

Holly Grylls a bit eccentric.

I totally agree with that.

That's a very weird one and I'm not in agreement with it, but you're about to see two or three

coming up that you're just going to be like, wait, what is this?

And that's the age old trap of someone has had time to think about what Lucas just sketched,

drafted out on the back of an envelope.

And then they have to, in this case, Star Wars, they have to fit it into the timeline.

So they have to go typically back, back in time, which makes it weird because like you

said, what happened to all this ingenuity?

It just disappeared.

Yeah.

Or maybe people figured out that the umbrella was not the best choice because, hey, this

lady dies.

The umbrella is not safe.

The umbrella is not safe.

His two blades, his almost Witcher-like quality of having two different blades helps him out in this episode.

I think everyone should go watch this episode. I really enjoyed this one. I'm eager to see what your thoughts are on the next two.

Honestly, when I was watching it, as I finished watching it, I was trying to organize in my head, how do I tell Eric that...

Not great. Fine. I was a cool guy. It has, in the time since, grown on me. It really has.

I definitely appreciate it. I think it's very well done. Again, the art is undeniable.

It's just the setting was a little jarring, but I get why they have that setting.

Yeah, and the art style too is not...

No, I have no problem with that. I have no problem with that. But that kind of dictates the setting.

It's of a piece. The art style and the setting all go together. And so that's why I think over time I am appreciating it more and more.

Alright, so Jon, we're getting close to the end of this podcast.

But I do want to ask you, because I always ask you at the end of these podcasts, what are you currently watching right now?

What other, outside of the Star Wars universe, what are you really getting into at the moment?

So I'm actually watching quite a few things right now, but the one that I want to focus on that I just finished is Apple TV Plus whatever foundation.

I was going to actually say the same thing.

Yeah, I know. That's why I wanted to preempt you.

But the difference here, dear listeners, is Eric has not read the source material.

I have not read the source material. I apologize. I really strive to read most of the...

No, no, no. This is good. This is good.

Okay, because you want to give your opinion.

I have. The source material is near and dear to my heart.

I was going to say near and dear to your heart. I know.

So I have a very different take on what they did to my baby.

Okay, so I don't know what's changed from the books, or as a multivision of it. I just don't know that.

I'm going to give you a real quick glimpse of what I think this is. I was really, really confused for the first four episodes.

So it's ten episodes total. I was really, really confused for the first four episodes, which was meant to be.

It was a lost-ish type thing, and I'm fine with that.

The next episodes, you gain a bit of information per episode about the story.

I think the tenth episode was really, really good in tying it into a bow.

I really do think it answered all the questions I had for the other episodes in a way that I was just like, that's pretty good. That's pretty good.

So what did you think?

So I'm not going to go into how the series differs from the novels, because anybody can look that up. That's pretty cut and dried.

I'm very interested in hearing your take on it, as someone who does not know the material at all.

Certainly, the series was so fundamentally different from the written source material that I had to set that aside and take it as it is, as it is presented.

And to that end, my biggest takeaway was, because I like a lot of what they did, the three emperors, the cloning aspect of it, the eternal Emperor, if you will.

So help me out. There are not the three emperors in the books?

It's not even close. I mean, Emperor Cleon I is in the first story of the first book for a couple of pages, and that's it.

Really? Really? He's a centerpiece in this thing.

Centerpiece. And I love, I actually love that that was a major part of this series. I have such big problems with the series overall, but I enjoyed that.

I thought, you know, the whole brother dawn, brother day, brother dusk.

I love that part. I thought that was what I really thought that was the best part.

That's really nice. Yep. No, absolutely nothing to do with that.

So I enjoyed that overall, the crisis that they have to go through. That was good. Again, totally different.

So Space Elevator, is that part of the book?

No. No, not at all. Nothing to do with it either. No.

You got to understand what this 10 episode series covered is like the first bit. If you were to line it up, it's the first bit of the first book.

Okay. So I don't even know how many pages that is. 50? 30? I forget. Maybe it's like 50 or 60.

Are you serious? Like 50 pages?

Yeah. It's the opening, the setting, you know, here's Harry Seldon and what he does and Gal Dornick and all that.

And then you're on Terminus and they deal with the first crisis. And that's it.

That's crazy to me. That is absolutely crazy to me.

So they made it their own thing for good or bad.

That's kind of cool though. I mean, they did an interesting story to me as somebody that's never read it.

I have to admit that I'm like, as someone who didn't read it, they're kind of using the fame of Asimov.

That's exactly it. That's exactly it.

Because I'm kind of like, Oh, this is brilliant.

Like I get it.

This is why Asimov is like so good.

You could have had this story.

You could have had this story and just rename everything.

And it would have been a new, fresh standalone kind of thing with, yeah.

Some people would point out that, wait, that's not a lot like the foundation,

but you, you know, it would have been so sufficiently different

that it's a new thing.

But you plug into that immediate fan base of this is foundation.

This is Asimov.

And it's, it's a little bit of bait and switch.

This is like, you know, I feel like this is kind of like a ghostwriter thing where like,

and I don't know the, the authors who do this, but like, I remember reading one time that like some big authors will just, you know, it'll be like the name of the huge author.

Like, and I'm just using Stephen King as the name just because I don't know that he does this or anything, but like they'll say Stephen King and huge letters on the book.

Yep.

But the actual novel will be written by somebody else in small type font at the bottom.

Oh, Arthur C.

Clark did that a lot.

Yeah.

Like I just gave up reading them because yeah, it's just not the same thing.

It's like where he's collecting the stories and, but his name's in big bull print on the front.

Yeah.

It's presented as him.

Yeah.

But, but it's not, it's actually him being the editor or him being the, the, the aggregator or whatever you want to call it of all the different stories in the book.

And it seems to me that that's kind of what Apple's doing here.

Maybe like it's one of those ones where it's like, yeah, we took this story and we took these and from what you're saying, 30 to 50 pages, which actually makes sense because they're like, we're

going to fill in these 50 pages in the first season of the show with whatever we want.

And as long as we start off at alpha and ended Omega, we're good.

You know what I mean?

Like it's kind of like, yeah.

Yeah.

I still, I'm always going to wish that, that, uh, what's in the novel could have been put on the screen because I love it.

I think it's a fantastic story, especially as it goes on.

But there was one thing I wanted to say though, and that is, oh, you liked episode 10.

The one problem I had with the series, just, just with the series itself is to me, episode 10 was almost a train wreck.

It was, it was just shoved in there.

Just, just shove everything in there.

We've got to wrap it up.

You know, we're out of time.

It's supposed to be 10 episodes.

And I, when I get that rush, I don't like it.

So I like the explanatory episode.

Like I enjoyed the, the fact that we knew where we were going this whole time.

And I agree it could be rushed.

And maybe I'm just like happy that I'm getting these dopamine hits of, oh, that's what it was.

That's what they were talking about.

You know, and, and, and I think the, the, the, how do I say this?

The, and I don't want to give anything away because I'm trying to give it away because I'm sure there's a lot of people that haven't watched it.

The whole last scene is a bit preposterous to me.

Like totally, like, like you're just kind of like, wait, what?

Like that doesn't seem right.

That's kind of stupid.

But that being said, I enjoyed it because it explained a lot of it.

I didn't.

I hated it so much.

I hate it so much.

Let me say this, explain it in a way that I could understand.

Not that I liked it.

Not that I enjoyed it.

But to explain it in a way that I'm like, okay, I see how this is tying together, especially with those two specific characters, because I was so confused.

I get it.

Baby likes his bottle.

I understand.

But, oh, geez.

Let me go back briefly.

Cause we, we, uh, glanced over the, what was it called again?

The, the tower thing, the space elevator.

What was it called?

Stars.

Yeah.

I think it was called space elevator.

Like, yeah, it was called stars end or something.

Anyway, that we're both talking about the same thing.

They crashed down on the terrace.

When that, when that, the, the scene of it crashing down onto the planet, that was amazing.

That was so good.

I totally agree with that.

The space elevator scene was probably one of the best ones in, in the show early on that I was kind of like, okay, this is taking a cool twist.

Like it almost felt expansive.

Like, like the terror, did the terrorist do it?

Like, like who, who just destroyed this monstrous piece of technology that has been strived for, for not hundreds of years, but like thousands of years.

Like this is like something that like they've been working on forever.

And I don't know if you've picked up on this, but they, they mention it.

That thing went all the way around the planet.

Just, just, just wreaking devastation all the way around.

And what they call the scar, I think is what they call it.

Like, like where it landed and destroyed.

And you're not just talking like people that were on the thing.

You're talking about all the people that's homes were destroyed going all the way around it.

Yeah.

And you can definitely tell.

Thoroughly, completely a populated world.

Trantor is, is, you know, it's like a Coruscant from the Empire.

Yeah, of course.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We're just all city.

Yeah.

It's all city.

And again, that's one of the things that really captured my imagination with the original foundation.

To be fair, that's, that's one of the greatest parts about the pivoting of this, of this series, at least for me as somebody that doesn't know the story was that that was such a huge event in Dawn Day and all them's career, whatever you want to call it.

Clune life that like.

You can tell that it has an effect on them to where they understand that he may be right.

That there may be chaos out here that we are like, it's such a fundamental change for them based on what they've always learned from, you know, robot lady and everybody previous, you know, to them as the other clones.

Does that make sense?

Like, it's like a very big event for them to where they're almost, you know, they're like, I'm not sure what to do.

to the point where they're like, we are maybe out of our league a little bit.

Like, like, like we maybe we need to let him go, you know, to this other planet

and do research on the foundation because we're not seeing everything.

You know what I mean?

And I have no clue if that was in the books or not, but I thought that was a

really good revelation.

Not at all.

Not, not in one bit.

It's very funny.

This seems like this, like, like literally when you say like 30 to 50 pages, like

it amazes me that like you just grab this 50 pages and create your own story out of

it.

Well, it's like, what, what was I'm trying to think of it?

There, there are so many Stephen King short stories that have been turned into

famous classic films.

I'm thinking like Shawshank.

Yeah.

No, there's tons.

Yeah.

Green, Green Mile.

Hmm.

No, I don't know that one, but I think I thinking I'm thinking of a Shawshank.

Or no, there's one I can't think of right now.

There is a short story that has like almost nothing to do with anything, but they

turned it into this film that is now considered, you know, just a treasure.

If it's not Shawshank, I can't think of what it is.

Are you sure it's not Green Mile?

Green Mile is no, it's not the death row.

Nope.

Nope.

Okay.

Now I know what Green Mile is.

It's not the one I'm thinking of.

It's something has nothing to do with the original short story.

Almost nothing to do with short story.

Cujo.

Is it Cujo?

Nope.

Nope.

Nope.

Nope.

All right.

Sorry.

All right.

Anyways.

Um, you know, I, I get what you're saying.

The point is, the point is that you can take, yeah, you can springboard off of your

almost unrelated source material and create something amazing.

And it's, it is so curious to me to hear people like you who don't know the

material, you just, of course you assume you assume that the three emperors that's,

that's, wow, that's in foundation.

I never knew that.

It's not there.

Yeah.

That's such a, that's such a foundational part of the show.

Yeah.

That like amazes me that that wasn't there.

Like that, that's where I was just kind of like, wait, what?

That's not part of it.

Like, that's not like, yeah, that, that amazes me because it honestly is like the

crux of the show, honestly.

I mean, in my opinion.

Yeah.

And for me, one of the disappointing parts is to have Demersal, the robot, to

have her outed like right away.

First of all, she's not supposed to be there.

Second of all, the fact that she's robot, no one knows that.

Interesting.

Okay.

Okay.

She, she served the Emperor decades before this story.

Okay.

I was going to say that that's a very big character.

Oh, what am I looking for?

That's a very big character.

Not flaw, but like, like discussion point on her early in the series, like early,

like really early, like, you know, that she's a robot.

Yeah.

And like, even before his whole pilgrimage episode, you know that like, it's like a

very, that's interesting.

That's that.

They decided not to, not to try and hide it.

They wanted to bring it right up front and that's fine.

That's fine.

It's just in the books, it's a major, major, major reveal later on that she's, she or

he is still around.

And that's how Asimov tied in foundation, the foundation series with his robot books,

robot novels.

Ah, okay.

That was his, it later on in life, he was like, I gotta, you know, I want to put all

these things in the same universe.

And so he said, when you said robot, you'd be like, I robot, I robot, robots and Empire.

Okay.

So, so he's creating this kind of Brandon Sanderson type of, uh, overarching thing

that these books series are.

Yes.

So, so many of it.

Yeah, so many of his novels exist in the same universe, just tens of thousands of years

apart.

Got you.

Got you.

So it's, it worked just fine the way they did it in the Apple series.

You know, now you can't have that major reveal later on, but that would take years

of, you know, so, so many seasons and it's like, Oh, she's a robot.

You know, that just at that point it wouldn't make any sense.

So take, take yourself and put yourself in my place who has never read anything.

Would you have enjoyed this?

Oh yeah, yeah, no, I, I absolutely would have, except for the, honestly, the last

episode, I thought it was just too rushed and too like, Oh, come on.

You know, but that's what, that's where, that's where the manufacturing of the last

episode, like the, like the pace, like not, you're saying it from, from, no, what they

decided to do, what they decided to do to bring two threads together is like, no, no,

no, no.

So does that have, so I'm asking, does that have any evidence of the books?

Zero, none.

None.

None.

None.

None.

None.

None.

None.

None.

None.

None.

None.

None.

None.

None.

None.

None.

None.

None.

None.

None.

Okay.

Nothing at all.

Yeah.

So that was a stretch for me as a viewer, not knowing the books.

Like that was a very big, like, okay, I, I get it.

We're, we're tied together.

Yeah.

I'll do it again.

Gal Dornick is in like five pages.

I mean, he's, he's like not a big character.

Crazy to me.

That's so crazy.

I think he ends up being the first mayor of, of, of Terminus, you know, of the

foundation and that's it.

He's done.

Move on.

I never realized it was called Terminus along with Atlanta.

We discussed this earlier in the podcast.

Yeah.

Why do you think I'm drinking this beer?

I never, I never put that together, John.

You surprised me.

This is your great twist at the end of this podcast.

This is my, seriously, I didn't, I like, until you just said Terminus, I was

like, wait a minute, like Atlanta.

Wait a minute.

I explained this earlier in the podcast.

This is my concerto.

This is what I call, your coffee spot.

Together is my masterpiece.

Oh my gosh.

Great job.

Great.

Great.

That is seriously plapping over here.

I like, I may go have another beer because of this.

Like this is, this is so good.

Great job.

Great job.

I didn't see it until the end.

Great job.

So thanks for joining us tonight on episode 23.

A fun episode.

I really enjoyed this.

So next week we're gonna be talking about episodes 14 and 15 of season one.

We're almost done with season one.

We're getting toward the end.

I'm excited to see where it goes after into season two.

I think there was supposed to be like a time gap in between season one,

season two of The Clone Wars.

So maybe they changed up some, some writing styles or writers or what have you.

So I'm eager to see that.

We're also gonna be reviewing visions of which I think we both enjoyed.

Well, to a point.

Vision season one, Episode two, which is a little different than season one,

Episode one.

So I'm eager to see John's thoughts on this to see if the artistic style is more

his bread and butter or if it's something a little bit different.

John, it's been fun.

Thank you.

I hope you enjoyed your Terminus beer.

I did very much.

And that is the determinants of the podcast.

I appreciate it.

Thank everyone for watching.

Stay safe and we will see you on episode 24.

This is the 11 parsecs podcast episode 23.

If you enjoyed this podcast, please take a moment to subscribe

and leave us a good review.

And be sure to check us out at 11 parsecs.com and discord.

I'm Jonathan Smith with the well-nourished Eric Thompson.

Thank you for joining us, but.