Episode 46: ( 20 BBY ) The Clone Wars Season 3 16, and 17 - Visions Season 2

In this episode, Anakin learns to love em and leave em, Eric discusses everything, and

a force painter makes a single stroke.

We'll discuss Clone Wars episodes 316, 317, and Visions 2-1 in this edition of the

11 Parsecs Podcast.

Hello and welcome to the 11 Parsecs Podcast, episode number 46, my name's Eric, I'm here

with my good buddy Jon.

Hello!

And we're still in The Clone Wars if you're a returning listener.

And today we get to talk about some really cool episodes, season 3, episode 16, 17,

and then we also do Visions season 2, we jumped ahead a little bit, which is awesome.

But as anybody that listens to the podcast knows, the first thing we have to do is pop

a tap on a beer.

Jon, what are you drinking tonight?

So tonight we are having something very special.

It is from Cigar City Brewing, which is in Florida, yes?

And it is Hi-Li, but not just their Hi-Li beer, their IPA, it's the double IPA version

of Hi-Li, and it has on the can, perfect 10%, 10% my friends.

Oh!

And it's a really tall stovepipe, bright canister.

Yeah, I was going to say, this is equal to technically two cans, right, of normal beer?

It's close to two cans, it's close to two cans.

This thing is massive, and I've always called it Jai Hi-Li, I don't know why, I've never

thought about it being the same as the sport.

Well, I mean, you're sounding out the letters, as any good student of phonics would do, so

yes, that makes sense, but my understanding of the pronunciation is Hi-Li.

How many waiters and waitresses have I made a fool of, Jon?

And you've never corrected me.

Why are you talking about a sport to waiters and waitresses?

I don't know, I don't know what's going on.

Let's start, we have no Hi-Li here.

Cigar City?

Chitty?

Alright, here we go, alright, sorry, that was a bad joke, bad joke, alright, this might

be the first time I'm worried about a beer, and I'm not joking around with you, this is

like 10% two cans pretty much stacked on top of each other, we'll take a picture of it,

it's pretty excellent.

Let's do this, are you ready?

Are you ready to pop?

Three, two, one.

Smells good, though.

Smells extremely hoppity.

I mean, Hi-Li is fantastic, the regular IPA.

This is like, well, it's like two IPAs and it's a double can, so it's really like four

IPAs.

Oh, jeez.

It's a quad IPA.

Oh, jeez.

A very foamy quad IPA.

Mine's actually not foamy, it's like I had a good pour or something because it is.

Well, I shouldn't have shaken it up.

Yeah, you shouldn't have shaken it up.

Alright, I'm trying it.

Go ahead, I'll get to mine in a few minutes.

That is hoppy.

That is pretty darn hoppy.

That is a hoppy beer.

Wow.

It's good, it's good.

Let's try it out of the can.

It's good, but man, it is hoppy.

Holy, wow, that's hoppy.

It is.

That reminds me of something.

I have no idea what, but I've had a beer like that.

It's almost, you know the Dank, like the, what is the, oh, who is it that does all the

Dank Brews?

Sweetwater.

Yeah, Sweetwater, yes.

Dank Tank.

Yeah, Dank Tank.

And then they also have like a special one that's like the black with the silver Dank

that they'll do.

Oh, the Festive Ale?

Yeah, it's, no, maybe it's Festive Ale, like a Dank version of it, I don't know, but anytime

I drink one of those, and I'm not a huge fan of those, but they're not bad, I mean I can

drink them.

Anytime I drink one of those though, that, it's that immediate hop hit of the Dankness,

that's what this is without the Dankness, but it's a hop hit, like you, your tongue

is like, whoa, something's up, you know, like this is different.

Yeah, that smacks you in the face, that's for sure.

It's pretty good though, I enjoy it.

It's good because it'll, it'll, it'll slow me down.

Yeah, agreed.

Savor.

Yep, yep.

Agreed, agreed.

Just suck it back.

Well, what is, what is your over-under on both of us finishing these?

Do you think we'll both finish these by the end of the episode?

Uh, ooh, I, I tend to think so because we're, we're pretty good about that and we do enjoy

drinking our beer.

Yeah, sure.

But it's possible, I think it's unlikely, that one of us will have a little bit left

in the, in the glass.

In the can, a little bit left in the can.

And by one of us, I mean you.

Yeah, probably so.

Um, so, uh, John, uh, we went from last week listening to, uh, amazing, amazing, amazing,

um, episodes to this week, which, just because we're about to jump into it, was on par with

last week.

Like, I can't, I can't describe to you, like, like this whole Clone Wars episode drought.

For those that don't know the podcast, we're going through.

everything in canon order. So basically what that means is we're going through everything in the BBY

order of Star Wars and we're up to Clone Wars. The Clone Wars is the stretch that's probably from

about 23 BBY to about 20 BBY or 19 BBY, where all the seasons of The Clone Wars happen. So we're

constantly watching Clone Wars episodes at this point. We're not reading any books, we're not

doing anything else, it's just Clone Wars episodes after Clone Wars episodes. And I'm not going to

lie to you, I enjoy The Clone Wars. I think it's gotten better over time. I think the writing's

getting better, I think the graphics are getting better, but there's just something about these

last six episodes that have blown me away. And I don't know what it is. First we had the Night

Watch stuff, and I think that part of the reason that I like all the the Night Sisters and all that

kind of stuff was that we just saw that with Ahsoka. I mean we're still watching TV as it

comes along, even though it's not in canon order. We saw that with Ahsoka, so that was a pretty good

backstory, but then now we're getting to just this kind of, frankly in my opinion, weird stretch of

episodes with these Mortis episodes that really rocks kind of the foundation of the Star Wars

story, but also they're done really well. The episodes are really, really good. I mean is that

where, am I out in right field on this one, or is this? You have your opinion. Okay. I mean it's

going to come across like I'm trying to be contrarian, you know, hot take. No, no, no,

that's the point of this podcast. No, I didn't really like these last two. I really didn't.

Okay, okay, good. This is going to be a good podcast. Let's dive in. Let's dive into the

first episode that we watched was season three, episode 16, The Altar of Mortis,

which this is the second one in the series. It's pretty much a trilogy. The first one was called

Overlords, which we watched at the end of last podcast, which we talked about, which we both

enjoyed. I mean it wasn't... No, I did. I totally enjoyed that. Yeah, it was like a neat philosophical

Star Wars discussion that we're talking about something that's maybe even bigger and badder

than the light and the dark fight, or the Jedi Sith fight. We have this whole light and dark

fight. And then we carry over into this story where they're leaving and Ahsoka just somehow

gets taken by the bad guy, which was a really fast kind of happening, I guess you could say.

Like it was just basically he flashes above the ship, takes her, and then they're gone.

So I don't know that... I think that the story for this one was hurried a little bit more,

but also I don't... It's not that I didn't like it. I just didn't think that the story pacing was maybe

as good as the last episode. What did you think? I just had issues with the story itself. I never

really thought about the pacing of it. I just... I enjoyed the last episode because it needed to

end there. It needed to be just... It needed a mystery. Agreed. It needed that mystery. It's

like The Hatch in Lost. Yes. It needs to just be a hatch. Great comparison. Yeah. And in the season,

have people wondering and talking about it for like a season, and then don't come straight back

to it the next week. I completely agree with that. Right. I thought, yeah, exactly. Maybe come back

to this like, you know, two, three seasons later or something like that. That would have been

fantastic. The fact that they were trying to leave, and no, they're not leaving. Let's go back

and learn a lot more about this, which I just... I didn't like it. It spoiled the mystery that I

really enjoyed. It was... You're talking about you liked the writing. I thought it was just

over the top, melodramatic. Everything is just superlative, speaking in these big,

sweeping terms. And, oh, daughter, how could you? It's just... It really lost me, clearly.

See, I think 16 for me was pretty good. 17, I completely agree with you. It gets a little over

the top. And it's not just the dialogue. It's maybe the whole story. And there's a thing that

I'll talk about at the end of this episode in the beginning of 17 that I didn't like at all.

But I think that having... Okay, well, one thing I did, it's in my notes, and I want to bring it up.

And I don't know if you noticed it too. But whenever Anakin first talks to the son of Mortis,

and he's talking about how powerful he can be. And Anakin's like, well, I'll never be a Sith.

And the son of Mortis says, and I quote, we will destroy the Sith. And then it's his voice.

And then a second later, though, he says, and the Jedi. But did you notice that when he says,

and the Jedi, it's in Palpatine's voice? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I totally picked up on that.

That was pretty cool. That was, I thought that was really neat. Because I was kind of like,

I was kind of like, okay, you're kind of like merging these two things. And it gives a little

bit more of an air of mystery about Sidious, really, in my opinion. Like, how much more does

he know that he's not talking about? Does he even know that these people exist? Or maybe he doesn't?

I don't know. But I did like the fact that the son is kind of telling him, hey, there's much

bigger stuff than the Jedi Sith. I mean, we'll destroy them both. And again, go ahead.

Now, what did you make of him saying, we will, we will bring, because Anakin says, you know,

will we bring peace? Because that's all he cares about. And, and the son says, yeah,

of course, we'll bring peace. We'll end all war, all suffering. I'm assuming that that's, that

sounds, that's meant to sound as

bad as I think it is. Yes, I completely agree. And at that's not what people are gonna love each other. We're just going to we're going to brutally suppress them. Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna subjugate everybody like like, it doesn't matter who you are. It doesn't matter if you're Jedi or Sith, you're gonna be, you know, bowing down to us. That's totally how I took that. And so the dark side is Machiavellian willing to do whatever it takes to achieve their their goal.

Well, let's talk about that a second, though. I don't know if it's Machiavellian, because I think that like, he has been regulated by his dad so much. It's that was one of the problems that I have with this episode was like, the son, it feels like when, when the son is talking about the dad, or even to the sister, or the daughter, it seems like he's like, really, like, like outstretching his his pants, you know, like, he's really just like, like, he's never like, he's always been a bad person.

But he's never been this bad, and this chaotic. And that's what it feels like, whenever Anakin lands here, is that now he's just like, okay, well, I'm gonna go crazy. And we see that with trying to kill his dad, we see with, you know, all this other stuff. And it's just like, I feel like he was always under the thumb of his dad. But then for some reason, whenever Anakin lands, he's not anymore. And that got me like, kind of like, is that because he feels that Anakin is going to go to the dark side, or knows Anakin is going to go to the dark side?

I think they touch on that. They, it's like, it's like, oh, God, Odin in the Marvel Universe, right? He's getting older. He's not able to keep, keep order anymore. Yeah. And so the bad guys see their opening.

Yeah, okay. But do you think, are you considering Anakin a bad guy, though?

No, no, I was not. The son sees Anakin as his opening, because his father is close to death. His father talks about, I need you, Anakin, I got to pass all my powers to you, because I'm out of here, right? I'm done.

Yeah, off this mortal coil, or immortal coil, whatever it is, and on to letting you take over this position, which Anakin was like, nah, dude, I'm not there yet.

Yeah.

Yeah, I, Dark Ahsoka was cool.

Yeah, yeah, okay, that's fine. You know, that, yeah, sure, that's fine. I want to come back to this, this notion that the dark side is, again, willing to, they're willing, they're interventionist, okay? If you want to relate it, as I know you do, to the United States foreign policy, they are interventionists.

I woke up this morning thinking this.

Yeah, see, great minds, man, great minds. Whereas the light side, and by extension the Jedi, they are the isolationists. They want to do only what is good, but that pretty much paralyzes you sometimes to do nothing, right?

That's what we're being shown here, yes?

Yeah, I agree with that, yeah.

Hmm.

I think that, yeah, I don't think you have to be isolationist, I don't know. When I think of isolationist in foreign policy, I think of China for like, what, 400 years, 500 years? Where they really didn't interfere with anything outside their borders other than their border attack. I mean, I don't know, it just doesn't feel, I don't know if I can equate those equally.

Okay, so we see it in The Phantom Menace when, I'm blanking, is it Obi-Wan that says, or no, is it Qui-Gon that says we have to intervene with the trade blockade?

Yeah.

And, oh God, what's his name with the purple lightsaber?

Mace Windu.

Mace Windu, thank you. I want to say Maul for some reason. Says, you know, no, we're not going to interfere, right?

Yeah.

So, is the good side good if the good side does nothing?

You're saying that they're taking a neutral stance, and by taking a neutral stance, you're not taking the good side.

If you're not, if you are, think of Spider-Man. If Tobey Maguire sees the burglar running towards him and he steps out of the way and lets the burglar go past, as he does, is he a good guy? Is that a good guy?

But he would only not be a good guy because he has the power to stop him. If it were some Joe off the street that couldn't do anything and got out of the way.

Do the Jedi have any powers?

Okay, yeah, I'm getting your point. I agree with you. I'm just working my way to there. But you're saying just because they have the power and don't wield it, then that makes them, not necessarily evil, but it makes them not neutral, by any means.

But at the same time, I can deconstruct my own argument, because at the same time, we've seen over and over again that you may go into something with the best of intentions, and it all goes sideways, and you're the bad guy.

You end up helping evil. You don't mean to, but you do. Your interventions produce really unwanted side effects.

Making you the bad guy?

Isn't that episode, isn't that the next episode though? I mean, is that the whole

kind of point of Anakin in the next episode in 17?

We can get to that if you'd like.

Let's jump to it. Let's jump to 17, because I think that, I think that,

so 16 and 17, of course, they're the same storyline. And I do, before we jump into 17,

I do want to say one thing that I did not like at all about these two episodes,

is the very end of 16 has, as Mortis or the father say, you've got to get off this planet,

because he cannot get to that spaceship. If he gets, if the sun gets to that spaceship,

then your whole galaxy's in trouble, right?

I love that you're bringing this up. Please keep going.

And then the very beginning of 17, Anakin won't leave, because he says,

I have to get his permission, or I have to get his blessing to leave.

Blessing, yes.

And I don't understand that at all.

That plot, the plot demands it.

I know, but it was like a complete 365.

And it made no sense whatsoever.

And it almost made Obi-Wan be like, wait, what? He just told us to leave.

He was, like, telling us to get off this planet as soon as possible.

I'm making Ahsoka work her ass off down here, hanging in her coffee,

you know, to get us off. And then now you're like, I got to go get his blessing.

And I, yeah, that was a, that was a big, eh, to me. I don't know.

But let's jump into 17. Let's jump into 17 as a whole.

I felt that what we were just describing was Anakin being used as a pawn almost.

What do you think? It's hard because of the visions.

What did you think about this episode?

I mean, again, I just really didn't care for it.

And specifically, to jump a little bit ahead, the Vader helmet in the smoke thing, too much.

Actually, I'm torn on that because you have to make it obvious to certain viewers

who may not be picking up on what you're dropping.

But, you know, we're, we're, we're, we're sophisticated.

And it was just smacking me in the face. It's like, no, I get it.

I get, I get it. He's going to become Vader. I get it.

You know, you don't need to show me that.

Yeah. And there was some of the, the smaller parts, too, were

Obi-Wan and, you know, it's just Padme, you know, dying or choking.

I don't, it was, I, it was, it was a little over the top for me.

And then I also didn't like the fact that they're like, we just revealed this massive thing

that Anakin knows what's going to happen in his future.

This completely changes really how you view his character

through all the Skywalker series going forward.

And then they're like, oh, Mortis is going to,

the father's just going to boop on the head.

And it's gone.

Yeah.

And I was like, and I was like, oh, God, what a, what a terrible reset.

Like, it was just like, it, it felt like you, like, you were reeling me in because I was just

like, this is really, really big.

And then you're just like, no, just one little boop and it's fine.

Did not care for that at all.

Yeah.

I don't really ever care for that.

There, there's, there's a name for that trope and I can't remember what it is, but

just, you know, when you wipe away the, the, what you just went through with this,

you know, stroke of the pen, just no, I didn't, never, never.

And I think too, the fact that it's like selective amnesia,

like you're not gonna remember these specific things that I have no clue what he showed you.

Right.

Well, I mean, the father's a super natural, strong force user.

He can, he can do that.

Yeah, I guess so.

I guess so.

I, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm cooling to this episode.

The more I think about it, I mean, I really hate to piss all over your enthusiasm there.

But it just, oh, I will say this.

Hey, I enjoyed seeing Qui-Gon.

Yes.

Qui-Gon was cool.

Was Liam's voice.

Yes.

Yes.

And then what did you think about, there was a little bit of a twist that I, I will admit,

I don't know that I saw coming, where the father takes the sword, or the one that we see,

you know, and the sword and all the other things, stabs himself.

And then you're like, oh, so he's going to trap him here.

And I, this is what I thought, and maybe I was missing something throughout the episode,

but I was like, okay, he's going to trap himself here, so that that traps the son here.

We now see the son's true feelings coming out, like, as in like, I didn't want you to die.

Like, he, like, he really didn't want his father to die.

But throughout these last two episodes, he has wanted him to die.

He almost killed him.

But he didn't want him to die.

And then that's when you see Anakin actually come up and stab him in the back.

And it's like.

And that's all it took.

That's all it took.

And it was, that was interesting.

I did not see Anakin coming up and the father and Anakin working together.

Did you?

Did you know that was going to happen?

Or did you think that was going to happen?

You did?

Okay.

I can't say I totally, I'll say it this way.

I was not at all surprised.

Okay.

Okay.

I was.

No, I didn't because I'm not that good, but I was not as like, yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

That, that happened.

Of course that happened.

I thought it was good.

I thought it was about to turn into like a big escape journey where they have to get

off the planet really quick because everything's collapsing and all that kind of stuff.

But now you just fade to white and they're back on the shuttle.

Yeah.

And waking up half asleep.

I bet you guys don't know what we've been through, Rex.

I don't.

Yeah.

That whole trope about you, you know, you were gone for just a second, like, oh, that was way long in a second. Yeah.

What, um, what did you think about the very last scene where the father's dying and he says, but beware your heart?

Again, we already know this. So that's not...

Well, I...

It's not like I haven't seen, it's not like everybody watching this hadn't seen episode three.

No, no, I know that. But what I'm saying is the beware your heart part. I think it works in two ways. I think it works in the Padme way.

And then I also think it works in him killing...

Well, I...

It depends on how you...

Oh, whenever he saves Luke.

By throwing...

Beware your heart? You think he was warning about that?

No.

Bringing balance to The Force?

Well, no, no, I'm saying that beware your heart because he, he sees what happens to Padme, but his ultimate balancing of The Force

ends up being him accepting the fact that Luke is his son and throwing, you know, over the wall. I mean, like, am I missing something?

I'm really not following you on that one. I'm sorry.

I thought it solely had to do with turning to the dark side and very briefly showing, you know, hey, by the way, you're going to slaughter kids.

Oh, yeah. So the way I look at it, the whole Skywalker saga is he gets super evil. He's totally evil. But in the end, he redeems himself with Luke.

Yet we know that by throwing the Emperor over the rail.

Right, but he redeems himself with Luke by showing his heart, the thing that he was worried about after Padme.

Right. So why would the father say beware your heart? That was solely talking about turning to the dark side.

Okay.

Get this. If you don't turn to the dark side in the first place, you don't have to turn away from the dark side.

Yeah.

But then that gets back to, and this is the thing that just keeps bugging me, is the balance of The Force, the balance of The Force.

If things are perfectly balanced, I don't, are you just, you're just perpetually, you know, at war?

Or are you talking about like this theoretical, hypothetical, perfect balance, which must, by its nature, be very short-lived?

Yeah, it has to be, yeah, if it even exists at all. I don't think you can ever have a perfect balance.

So isn't that just ephemeral, just chasing a Phantom, maybe a Phantom Menace, of the balance of The Force?

It's just, there's such obsession with it, and it seems like it's just...

Oh, 100%. And I think that that's totally Balin's character in Ahsoka, and we talked about this kind of last in the last podcast.

Like, that's what I think the ultimate goal of Balin's character is to reset everything.

Not the Jedi, not the Sith, but the light, dark, everything.

Like, he's saying, whatever I am searching for, whatever he is searching for, is to reset everything.

So he's pulling a Thanos. Did we talk about that at the time?

Yeah, yeah. I don't know, no, we didn't talk about him being a Thanos character.

I just said that, I remember being like, that's why I found his character so intriguing.

And he even talks about this, he's like, I'm here to reset everything.

Not here for the dark, not here for the light, I'm the ultimate gray character.

Which, going back to your point about, is there ever really a pure balance of The Force?

Well, maybe Balin's character is gonna be like, yeah, he is the perfect balance of The Force, he's gonna reset everything.

And then you're like, no, he's doing some other weird stuff.

And you're like, no, no, he's not the perfect, he's either dark or he's either light.

And I agree with you, you can't really be a perfect balance.

So like, which little side fluctuation is he?

Which end of the spectrum does he meagerly jump onto?

The far dark or the far light? You don't know his character, that's why I find him so interesting.

I still say that the concept of light and dark and it must be balanced and all that,

it's good at a surface level, but the minute you dig into it, it starts to make no sense.

Yeah, I agree with that.

Or how A, ineffective it would be if it was there, and B, how unachievable even that is.

And how flawed it is in concept, because again, you don't cheer for Luke Skywalker to save the princess

and then turn around and stab a puppy, because that's balance.

Yeah, I was trying to remember the analogy that you used on the last podcast about this.

It was feeding a man and then killing his family.

I think you're really good, you're really, really good with these analogies.

I mean, they're like spot on to where you're like, oh, okay, well, that's extremist, but I get it.

All right, so let's talk about, as a whole, the entire Mortis series.

In talking about it, I will admit that it soured a little bit for me toward the end of it.

And part of that was I did note some flaws in here.

I was just like, that 16, 17 break killed me.

I was just like, what are we doing here?

But other than that, I thought it was a good trilogy of episodes compared to what we've been watching in Season 3.

Take out the Nightsister stuff.

I thought it was good.

I personally am going to put it in maybe, and I will admit,

I admit that after talking about this a little bit, I'm going to bring my score down a little bit. I'm going to put it at maybe 88, 89 out of 100.

I'm going to characterize it as the Hangover Trilogy. First one was pretty good, pretty enjoyable.

Yeah, okay fair enough.

And then had no interest in 2 and 3.

What is the opposite of the Hangover Trilogy?

The Toy Story Trilogy?

Totally, totally superior. That's a really strong trilogy is what that is. Yeah, that's a good one. I wouldn't have thought of that.

That's probably the only one that comes to my mind when I sit there and say, out of the trilogy, well I mean Star Wars itself.

The obvious one, the OG.

Yeah.

That's a great question. What is a solid trilogy? Maybe not where each one is better than the last, but just a solid trilogy.

I can name tons of movies that I felt the second one was better than the first.

Sure.

But yeah, the trilogy parts, unless it was Young Guns 3, the trilogy parts really, is really like trying to, that's, Toy Story is definitely one, and I think part of that is just because the tech got better, so you were more invested in the story subconsciously.

Okay, sure.

But I'm trying to think of other trilogies that I would just be like, got better and better.

The Godfather, Godfather 2, and then Godfather 3.

Yeah, that's another Young Guns, there probably was a Young Guns 3, I just don't even know about it.

There was not, there can't be, no way.

I don't know man, I'm going to go look this up after we get done with this.

And if we do, we're watching that movie and talking about it on Geekery next time.

Alright, let's talk about the last episode, I think we'll just put Mortis to bed.

It was good, I felt it was good, I felt it was good for in the context of all these Clone Wars episodes, I liked it.

But, let's talk Visions, Visions Season 2.

Sure.

I'm going to go out and say that I absolutely loved this first episode.

I don't know if I loved it as much as the Samurai episode from Season 1,

but that would be the only Season 1 episode that I would probably put above this.

So, I mean, I hate to be that guy.

You are going to be that guy.

What do you have against color, John?

No, I'm joking, I thought this was fantastic.

It was, it was so good, it was so good.

I mean, it's kind of on the nose, you know, the whole paint as metaphor thing,

that's not really breaking new ground there.

Well, the way it was used.

The art style was, yeah, exactly.

The art style was just fantastic.

I love the little snippet story, just, it paints enough of a picture, so to speak,

to get me interested, really good character design.

And then we have the classic, and I want to look up, actually,

I want to ask you, where else have we seen a moment like this?

Because I know we have.

The one big move.

The face-off, and then the one big move, and you're cut in half.

Yeah, the rodent, well, the rodent series.

I mean, all the Seven Samurai, all the, oh, oh my God,

I cannot believe I'm forgetting the writer-director's name.

I mean, Obi-Wan finished off Maul like that, right?

With the one big move.

Yeah, but it wasn't like, oh, I thought you were talking about

the kind of running at each other move.

No, no, where it's you square off, and you both, in this case, they were running.

But I'm talking about just, it's not a big, long, drawn-out fight,

you know, Jackie Chan style, it's one move.

Yeah, I'd say Maul.

Cut him in half.

Yeah, you got the Qui-Gon kind of pre-fight with the Maul stuff,

but I definitely would say Maul.

I agree with that.

I mean, we could go back to the last couple of episodes

where we saw with, oh, what's the Darth Maul look-alike?

Savage.

Where Savage goes and just destroys those Jedi at the Temple

once he gets to be Savage, oppressed.

Remember how he gets beefed up, and he gets roided up,

and then he goes to the Jedi temple, and there's like the little Padawan

and his master, who seems to be a, you know,

we've seen the master before in other things,

and they just get torn up really quickly.

Yeah, but was that a one big move, though?

No, it wasn't.

Well.

No.

Yeah.

That's the entirety of the fight is one big move.

I don't know.

Lightning fast.

That's a good question.

I don't know.

I can't think of anything else.

I feel like we've seen it a handful of times,

not necessarily in Star Wars, but in fiction.

I mean, you definitely got Indiana Jones shooting the guy with a gun.

Okay, I guess that does qualify.

That was the end of that fight.

Yeah, I mean, it was just really quick.

Is that a good example?

Not what I was thinking of, but it does qualify.

I don't know.

It's a good question.

I don't know.

It's just like the one-hit fight.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, man.

Yeah, I don't know.

That's a good question.

It's the reason, one of the reasons I'm just really curious,

because it's satisfying.

It's very satisfying.

I get tired of the long, drawn-out fight.

Yeah.

I think to be fair, to whoever's producing the movie, the show, the writing, the art, kind of enjoys that too, because they don't have to paint or create this whole long drawn out play.

I know, they're so lazy. Artists are so freaking lazy.

Especially these Star Wars people.

Can I just do it in one move? Yeah, just do it in one move.

Time for lunch anyway.

So I remember you and I had a really good fascination with the show Tales from the Loop. Do you remember that show?

I do. I think about that show occasionally.

Really bothersome, kind of in a Black Mirror kind of way. Really good show, really well written, really well done.

Did you ever see any of the either RPG or books that were about Tales from the Loop before the show came out?

You asked me this at the time.

Oh did I?

No, you did. It's been a while.

But no, I went into that so cold and loved it, but was, you know, a little uneasy at certain parts.

It was like the robot dying was like, oh man, what is that about?

So the art style, I'm trying to get more along the side of the art style.

So if you ever watched, sorry, if you ever watched, if you read or looked through any of the books for Tales from the Loop, that artist, I should know his name and I don't.

And then he also had a board game called Scythe, which also contains his art.

And his art, this episode just kept reminding me of his art.

And I think part of it's because of the machine at the very beginning, you know, her little pal thing.

But man, the art was so good.

And I liked the way that they would concentrate on the character's art and the character looked superb.

The machines look superb. Everything looks superb.

But then as you faded out, it was like completely white sometimes.

Like there was just no background. There was just nothing there.

That's focus. And I love it.

I do too. I thought it was so good.

You don't need to fill the screen with details.

Yep. 100%. 100%.

I absolutely, and I feel bad that I didn't write down the artist's name on this one.

But if you're listening to this podcast, Vision Season 2, Episode 1.

And I keep wanting to call the episode that we both really loved in the first season called Ronin.

It's something to do with the samurai, but it was really good too.

But those two episodes are ding, ding, ding.

I remember in Season 1 that there was definitely some episodes that you and I disagreed on,

either by art style or just by pure anime type of situation.

But I'm glad we started off with a strong one on this one.

No, it does give me hope for this season.

Now it's time to nerd out.

All right, John. So it's been about two weeks, I think, since we recorded our last podcast.

I've watched a bunch of stuff I want to talk about.

But I know that there's one thing that I'm pretty sure both of us have watched that I have to talk about.

And it's going to be full of spoilers.

So if you don't want to hear spoilers for what I'm about to talk about, stay away.

Did you watch all of Fallout yet?

I have finished Fallout Season 1.

I went into that, not with low expectations, but with neutral expectations.

Agreed, agreed with that.

And the only negative thing I'll say, because it's ended so strong.

The only negative thing I'll say is the shtick, the gimmick of, you know, 1950s.

That style that everything is 1950s.

Yeah, like Frozen.

Got a little much at times, just a little bit much.

Yeah.

That's the only quote.

Yeah, and that's an overriding theme in the game that I have come to like because I like the games.

But I can tell that if, or I would say that if I went fresh into it, because my wife was watching it with me.

And she asked me, she's like, why does everything look like the 50s?

I'm like, well, the timeline kind of broke around Vietnam.

Yeah, no, I get it.

It's just a little much after a while.

It's just an aesthetic that has stayed with them because the world was pretty much decimated.

But I agree with you that it does get overplayed a little bit.

And also, too, the fact that you have so much technical advancement and you don't see any artistic style advancement.

That's actually nailing it 100%.

Yeah.

The tech is kind of weird in like a Tales from the Loop way.

It's like it's recognizable, but not at all what real tech is and so advanced in some cases.

But it's not at all advanced in other ways.

It's just strange.

Yeah, agreed.

And that's the, I think that's the, I don't want to say motif, but that's the theme.

I mean, that is what the games have always held.

And I don't know how you could do a Fallout show without doing that.

Sure, sure, sure, sure.

But okay, specifically like the kind of tech, the miracle tech, right?

You take a shot and you're healed all up.

Yeah.

Is that just playing off of it's a video game and you take whatever it is in the video game and you're back to full health?

Is it playing off of that?

Yes, yes, 100%.

Yeah, 100%.

And it's like a miracle.

And if I remember, yeah.

And if I remember too, that there was, there was like a small explanation

somewhere within the show where they tried to describe it.

And I almost was kind of like, don't describe it.

Don't just keep it a mystery.

Like, like that's the, that's the hatch.

Yeah.

I agree with that.

Yeah.

Like, like don't, don't talk about it.

It just is what it is.

And that's the way it is.

And, and, and totally 100% that's in the movie or in the show because it was in

the game and it's only in the game because you needed that to get through the game.

So, I mean, that's, that's, yeah.

Well, at the same time, you need that to get through the show because you can't

have characters, uh, traipsing through a brutal environment and suffering real

damage, you know, and, and you keep going there, there has to be something like

when they, they, but they even like with so in the finger back on and all they did

was like basically just finger on and it's, it just totally works.

So look at that.

Yeah.

That's not how things are.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, you know, you got to suspend relief a little bit, John.

I mean, yeah, I know.

I know.

Yes.

The, the show about a nuclear apocalypse where people are trapped in the fifties

and they emerge from the vault after 291 years, totally unrealistic though.

They put a finger on, no, it's it.

I get it.

I get it.

Still.

So, and also I had no idea at all about what, what the ghoul, what the deal with

that was, I loved going into this cold.

Yeah.

And my wife was the same way.

She's like, so I don't get it.

How is he still alive?

And they kind of touch on it, but they kind of don't, or at least I, the way

I think that, so this is, this is what they had to explain to my wife is my

wife watched this with me and she felt like this was the story of a game.

And I knew what was happening because I played the game all the way through.

And I had to explain to her that like, every game of fallout is completely

different with a completely different person that you are going to be a

question that was going to be a question I had for you because I only played

one game briefly and just didn't get into it, but, but yeah, I, I, like I

hear terrible things about fallout 76 and what is that set in this timeline?

Or is that something radically different?

No.

So every single fallout game that you know of, except for one that you

probably never heard of is Canon.

It's all part of this game.

I mean, it's all part of this movie or the show.

Yeah.

Let me say this.

It's all part of this universe.

So got it.

But what you've got to understand though, is that like, like my wife thought that

this was literally the story of a game.

What are the games?

Three, four, 76, new Vegas, you know, all these different games.

And I'm like, no, that's the kind of the beauty of fallout is it's a, it's a, it

was already a crafted as a world.

And every time you play a game, it's a new experience for you as somebody

who's played the other games, because you don't know what's going to happen

because you don't know what happened at this particular vault.

Like you don't, you don't know what is different about this

vault and all the other ones.

And that was some of the, in my opinion.

So the really brilliance of like Scott Howard in those early days, designers,

creators, and all this stuff that this world is, they're like, yeah, we're

going to create this world, but there's also this variable that changes every

single time there's a new game or.

In the event of a show, like maybe there's a different story.

Maybe there's a spinoff story that's got something to do with another vault.

Like it was a really neat way to do this.

But one of the cool things is, is that you've always understood that

there's a difference between vaults.

You've always understood that this vault did this, and they're a little

bit different because of that.

This vault did this, but you never understood why you never understood

the overarching kind of why are all these vaults like this?

And the show did an absolutely brilliant, brilliant job of explaining it.

And I loved it.

I loved every minute of it.

That, that is so surprising what you just said on so many levels, because I

assumed that this was basically fallout four.

Nope, it's not.

Nope, not at all.

And you're learning things in the show that are never covered in the game.

Never covered in the game.

Like you, it's so it's, it's everybody on the surface and everybody, you know,

not in the vault because some of the vaults don't communicate.

It, everybody generally in almost all these games, you start out almost all

the games or you start out as a vault ever, and you do exactly what the show

did, where you graduate or you get out of this vault and you go discover the world.

And then people on the outside would kind of know, Oh, you're fine.

I'm just naming a number.

Oh, you're vault 275.

Oh, we know about you guys.

You guys were the ones that were trying to be hybrid.

Genetically hybrid to salmon, you know, something stupid.

And, and there's even some vaults are almost like a joke.

Like there was joke level like that.

And, um, so you always understood through playing the games that each vault was

different and you kind of understood that there was a reason, but you didn't

understand what that entire reasoning was.

Like, like what is the thing that makes it so that vault X and

vault Y had different experiments.

And then when you learn it in the show, it is just, it's like, wow.

I mean, it's, it's wow.

At a level of people that didn't play the game or like, Oh, that's pretty brutal.

And then the people that did play the game, you're like, I've

been playing this my entire life.

And now I just understand exactly why, you know, this world

order exists as it does today.

Well, okay.

That that's an, uh, dimension.

I certainly didn't know.

And are the same writers involved with the show in the game? Do you think?

No, so the game's 27, 28 years old, the first game that came out? Maybe, yeah, maybe it was 30. I, I think that so the

Wait a minute, the original Fallout game is from the 90s?

Yeah, 98, 97, 98. It was right, right at the end of high school for me. Yeah, so the, the producer of the company that

owns the IP, one of the producers is the is Todd Howard, the guy who created, well, not created, but he heads Bethesda,

which is Skyrim, Fallout, Starfield, and really just those three IPs. And so I think he was kind of the funnel for the

lore aspect of it. But the writing was done by Inception guy's brother. Oh, man, I cannot believe I forgot his name.

Um, did Westworld?

No idea.

John, help me out. Who wrote and directed Inception? Um,

I get brain fart.

Inception? Nolan?

Yeah.

Christopher Nolan and his brother.

Yeah, Christopher Nolan. And Christopher Nolan's brother is the one that wrote Fallout.

Jonathan Nolan.

There's two brothers.

Richard Nolan.

There's two brothers. There's Jonathan Nolan. And there's also another, I don't know their names. And I'm sorry. I should

probably know this before I came on the podcast to talk about it. But, um, but yeah,

you need to be fully prepped.

I know. I really do. Be prepared. Boy Scout motto. Um, yeah, I should have had two. But he's got two brothers. And I know

one of them was part of it. And I'm pretty sure it was the one that did Westworld. So yeah, take it or leave it. But I

definitely felt like this was not something that they were just like, let's take this IP and write a story about it. It was

definitely somebody that had been playing the games and was like, what can I do that would blow people, you know, just out of

the water and be like, Whoa. And then you add in the actors and the actresses, it's just like, man, like the girl that

played Lucy was amazing. Goggins is just off the charts. And it's just he really, he really, really is. Well, he's just he's

got he's got that Southern accent that's just built in. It's innate. And it's just like, like, because him on gemstones, like

he's got a little bit more of a draw on gemstones. Is it baby Billy? Like he's got like a little bit more of that draw. But

then in this one, it's got this kind of like Western twang to it. And it's perfect. It's absolutely perfect for that

character. Absolutely perfect.

Yeah. I, I will say that it, it started out, I was willing to give this this series, some leash. Okay. And it took up some of

the leash. I was gonna say, which episodes took up the leash? The early ones? The early ones? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you

know, because again, I'm coming in cold. So I don't know any of this stuff. But once you start laying, laying the mystery,

you're like, what is what is with Vault 31? What is what is that? Why were they trying to break into Vault 31? And saying,

we know what you what you are, or something like that. Scrawled in blood on the wall. Okay, you're really you're really

setting up, you know, the lost vibes here. Better pay off. And it finished so strong. Yeah, the only quibble I would have

with it is, and again, there's got to be a name for this trope, where it's, it's a it's a small world after all. The same

characters, the same characters keep coming back. Right? The the buds buds. Oh, yeah, they you know, they were all the

people you've been seeing through the series, right? Like, really? Really? There's no other people in the world. It's just

them? Well, but it's, it's, it's the Star Wars has the same problem where it's always the same people. In a galaxy of 20

trillion individuals, we know like, 50. And it's always the same people. All right, coming up. So wait, wait, wait, there's a

there's a there's a setup. There's a setup line, where Goggins character is talking to his wife pre explosions. And she says,

I'm trying to get us into a good vault. I'm trying to get us into a good vault. And I think what the good vault stood for was the

management vault, one where they would not be altered, that they are taking care of the other two vaults in this little, in the

triple vault things, I can't remember that for many games, it was always you're just a one vault kind of thing. So I don't know if

maybe that was this experiment was that there would be a management vault, and two other vaults that just completely had to do

with the management said, and over time, that evolved to the fact that they would just elect the person from management from

vault 33 into management. But, um, but I, I think that I, I feel like this was the this was the vault, like, as in, like, if you took

all the vaults 275, or whatever they said on the map, across the North America, I think that this was the vault to get into was the

management vault. And I think that she alludes to that. That's why I'm kind of like, okay, I kind of get it now that they're not

other than the brain, buds, buds, brain going around doing stuff. They're not they're still not really other than cryo stuff.

They're not really experimented on, I guess you could say.

Overall, very, very, very satisfying. Looking forward to season two. Oh, speaking of, speaking of, you probably don't remember discussing the one season series Open Range with Josh Brolin, who's a rancher.

Oh, I love that. I love that show.

I just saw a trailer for Open Range season two.

No, I thought they had done a one minute.

I totally wrote that off. Totally wrote that series off. Like, there's no way this gets season two. There's no way. And not only does it have a season two, but the trailer shows me that, you know, they cranked it to 11.

Really?

The first season, did you watch the first season?

Yes, I loved it.

Okay. Very slow. Very, very slow.

It builds. It builds those. Because those last couple episodes were great.

You know, maybe it's just trailer-itis, but the trailer for season two is nope. It's just crazy crap all the time.

That's kind of that Westworld formula for me. And I hope that works.

Oh, I'm surprised there's going to be a season two. I'm looking forward to it.

Oh, no, no. I'm excited about it. I hope that it's not like, I don't know, I felt like, and I hate that we always go back to Westworld, but Westworld season one.

You always go back to Westworld. You're obsessed with Westworld.

I'm not obsessed with it. I'm just disappointed. I just felt like season one was just this great story buildup, and then season two kind of ignores that story and just does its own thing.

And I hope that, and I loved that. I will say that I remember watching season one, and I remember being a little too much character development. I know that sounds terrible to say.

Yeah, nobody wants character development.

I know, but I'm just saying, like, I wanted to know more about the hole.

Just give me the pew, pew, pew.

Yeah, well, no, I just kept going back to his family and, like, you know, the kind of stuff on the other side of the hole and all that kind of stuff.

And I don't know, I just felt like the hole should have been the primary character, because there's a hole in the middle of this field.

It's like the most weirdest thing ever.

But yet the hole kind of got pushed back to the side once you started talking about the kid and all that kind of stuff.

Yeah, if I had a complaint about that series, it's like, you know, they're sitting in a bar, drinking a beer, talking about whatever.

I'm like, guys, there's a hole in the field. Go back to the hole.

And a lot of you know about it at this point.

Like, I remember being like, he was the only one that knew about it at first.

And then, like, he kind of, like, you could tell he knew not just of it, but about it.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, that was one of the draws through the whole first part of the series.

And then, you know, you find out that other people know about it, too, and you're like, dude, there's a hole.

Like, why are you, what are you doing?

Why are you getting in fights with your parents at the house?

Like, there's a hole out there. We don't know what's going on.

Oh, yeah, it was good. It was good. That was a good show. I'm excited about that show.

I have one more thing I want to talk about before we end the podcast.

Sure.

And I've got a whole, I've got literally, I've been keeping really good track of a list.

On the next podcast, I want to talk about Three-Body Problem. Have you watched it?

Ha, ha, ha. Yeah.

Okay, yeah. We're not getting into that.

We will not discuss any more. Just right there.

Yeah, we're not going to get into that.

But I do want to talk about, real quick, Kong X Godzilla.

Great popcorn movie. Highly, highly recommend it.

I have it in my notes to make sure I mention it because I love Kaiju movies.

And it knocked it out of the park as long as you don't go in expecting anything great.

It's so good. It was so good.

Did you watch it or are you waiting for video?

Are you not even waiting for video?

No, I will watch it when it's streaming somewhere.

I just recently saw that, related, Godzilla Minus One.

Did you see that one? I didn't see that one.

I started to watch it and then paused.

Well, I paused because I wanted to get my son down to watch it

because I was like, this is a really fresh take on Godzilla.

And I loved it and I wanted to wait until I could enjoy it with him.

I have heard nothing but amazing things about that.

So, that is on my list.

Make sure you understand. They're complete opposite movies.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I want to see that take on it.

I want to see the Japanese take on it.

Imagine that. A Japanese take on Godzilla.

But, no, I just recently saw that it is now out on some new Blu-ray 4K release or something.

I had forgotten about that movie entirely and I need to rent it or buy it or something.

No, I haven't gotten to Godzilla. What is it again?

Godzilla X-Kong, which is the American popcorn cheese.

Would you like cheese on that?

I have enjoyed that series of movies in the same way that I've enjoyed the Planet of the Apes series.

And I'll watch the new one when it comes out.

I have actually not watched any of the Planet of the Apes stuff.

I couldn't tell you really anything about the plot of any of them.

Really?

No. I mean, we know the general thing about the apes take over what happens with humanity.

It's an apocalyptic kind of film and I love...

I didn't mean to turn this into this, but it's been a surprising...

What is it like three of those movies now? No, I can't even name them. Four or five aren't they? Four, okay

Well, maybe this is number five. It's either number four or number five. The fact that they produce that many of this series

I think is really something. It's probably the same way with you and Kong because it's like a trailer hype

movie to me and when I say that what I mean is I watch the trailer and I'm like I am ready to watch a

Movie like this. This looks really fun. Like I really really enjoy this trailer. What happens in this? What is this world?

I need to go explore it. You know, I need to go watch the originals just to, or not the originals

But I need to go watch the ones in this series this version of it to figure out what's going on here

This is really cool. And then I just never watch it. So so let's briefly if we can so there's there's starting with

The Godzilla

From from you know with the one you're thinking of Matthew Broderick 1998. Okay, the classic

Yeah, and then the one with Bryan Cranston, which was called Godzilla. I don't know what it was taken. Right, right. Okay, 2004

No, it was not

No, it had to be later than that. Come on. No, that was the one with Scarlet Witch in it, right?

Yeah, and in silver silver bullet, dude. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was in there, too

And then after that you have Kong Skull Island, which was a heavy hitter if you look at the cast

That's I don't know what you that's that's at the top of it's close to the top of the list

If not top of the list Oh 100% that was a that was a very big cast very well-done movie

Popcorn fun had a great time with it. And then after that though you get

Oh

What was the TV series on Apple that just came out?

Monarch, but I've seen that so shut up. Okay. Yeah, but there is definitely

Same characters and stuff. Yeah, it's good. And then after that you get this one. I mean, oh no Godzilla vs. Kong

We actually had the podcast going when it was Godzilla vs. Kong

You're forgetting you're forgetting it King of the Monsters Godzilla King of the Monsters. Oh, he defeats

I am forgetting that Mecha Godzilla. Oh, no, they wait. That's that's the Kong one where he defeats

Ghidorah

It's the three, right? Yeah, he goes up

Yeah, he goes to bed. Yes, all the different monsters from all over which comes back in in the in the Godzilla vs. Kong, right?

Yes, exactly. Yeah, right and that's Mecha Mecha Ghidorah

That comes back against him and him and Kong have to team up together and then which produces of course the Kong X

Good sir, Godzilla X Kong

Yeah, I mean you're to hear your do you hear your side of it? I love those good. That's like a

War the world's Tom Cruise version. Yeah, I loved that movie. Everybody hated it. I was fun. It was a fun. I

Enjoyed the sound of the tripods

And vaporizing people I enjoyed the beginning of the movie and then I can just turn it off

Yeah, all right fair enough it's just it to me it's like I admit I miss

Popcorn fun flicks like that. I just don't think like we have like Transformers and stuff like that now, which is a bad

It's not, you know, I'll watch it my son and stuff, but it doesn't I tried I can't yeah anymore

It doesn't hit as hard as like those kind of old classics. They get remade. I'm just like, oh, this is really good

All right, John we got we got to end it here. We got to end it here

We got sure I got tons of stuff. I want to talk about three body problem for sure

Constellation did you watch that? I don't even know what that is. Okay, it's on Apple TV

You may you maybe you may have a TV and then it well, I was gonna also say Masters of Air

But it's also Apple TV to what will I we will find a way

Listeners, if you would like to contribute to John's Apple Plus, go find me go flush

John Apple TV. No, it's all John Apple TV. All right, so so guys, thanks for joining us

Thanks for joining us for actually some pretty good episodes of Clone Wars and then also the geekery

but next week we're gonna be back and I think that this is a brand new set of

Episodes that maybe I've never heard of them

And when I say that I've never heard of them usually that means that they're not pretty high up on people's lists

So but anyways, we're gonna be tackling season 3 episode 18 and season 3 episode 19 18 is called the Citadel and the 19 is called

Counter-attack and then of course we'll be watching visions season 2 Episode 2 which I'm kind of excited about just because I want to see

if they pump

These visions seasons at the front with a really good episode and then kind of trail off toward the back

I'm gonna bet money. Yeah, it is so totally different and

It's gonna have to be let down, but we'll see. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see

John what was your ever under was that I might not be the one to finish and I will admit I have not finished

my beer I am I am very very sorry to report that

this is

What's beyond a sipper like a yeah, that's John pauser John. I'm in the exact same boat as you

I literally just poured probably the other half of my beer into my cup only because I can't just gulp this beer

That is this is not a beer that you could just kind of like it is not a gulper

Not unless you just don't really don't want to enjoy beer at all

But now I've got a probably a quarter of the total can left in my glass here

Yeah, didn't expect that. I didn't either like I expected to at least finish the can

But it's good. I'm gonna finish

John it's just gonna take

Yeah, we'll have to, I'll go watch an episode of Blue Orbs real quick while I finish it.

Jon, thanks for joining me as always. Thank you. And everybody out there,

stay safe until Episode 47. See you guys.

This is the 11 Parsecs Podcast, Episode 46. If you enjoyed this podcast,

please take a moment to subscribe and leave us a good review.

And be sure to check us out at 11parsecs.com and Discord.

I'm Jonathan Smith with Fallout Boy, Eric Thompson. Thank you for joining us.

Am I missing something?